Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Would it be possible for some kind soul to find details of the above marriage?

John Pennington to a Rose Martland, March qtr 1879 Prescot.

Rose's sister Elizabeth Ann married a Joseph Pennington in 1874 Warrington (I don't have any other details) and I would like to know if John and Joseph were related?

Glenys

Sorry not online, I think it would need to be searched at St Helens Library. LancsBMD give the marriage taking place at St Helens Parish..... presumably Parish Church.

Name:
John Pennington, widower, book keeper
Age:
31
Birth Year:
abt 1848
Event Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
22 Feb 1879
Parish:
Prescot, St Helens
Spouse:
Rose Martland spinster
Spouse Age:
24
Father:John Pennington, Underground Manager?
Spouse Father:John Martland, Painter?

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2576/ ... turnRecord

Clues?

1851:
HO107 Piece: 2195 Folio: 186 Page: 49
Address: 38 Groves Colliery Row, Sutton, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, John Head Married 40 1811 Colliery under Worker - Parr, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Ann Wife 36 1815 - Halewood, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Edward Son 14 1837 - Sutton, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Robert Son 10 1841 - Sutton, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Joseph Son 7 1844 - Rainford, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Ellen Dtr 5 1846 - Sutton, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, John Son 3 1848 - Sutton, Lancashire

1881:
RG11 Piece: 3735 Folio: 109 Page: 62
Address: 104 Croppers Hill, Eccleston, Lancashire
PENNINGTON, Joseph Head Married 37 1844 Land & Mine Surveyor - Rainford, Lancashire
PENNINGTON, Elizabeth A Wife 32 1849 Newton Le Willows, Lancashire
PENNINGTON, Ada M Dtr 8 1873 Scholar - Earlstown, Lancashire
PENNINGTON, Herbert H M Son 5 1876 Scholar - St Helens, Lancashire
PENNINGTON, John G Son 3 1878 St Helens, Lancashire
JOHNSON, Helen Servant U/m 18 1863 Servant - St Helens, Lancashire

It would seem I need to appraise myself of more of the databases held on Ancestry.

From FamilySearch.....

Marriage: Joseph Pennington
Birth Date: 1844
Age: 30
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Ann Martland
Spouse's Birth Date: 1849
Spouse's Age: 25
Event Date: 14 May 1874
Event Place: Warrington, Lancaster [sic], England
Father's Name: John Pennington
Spouse's Father's Name: John Martland

And this:
Name: Joseph Pennington
Event Type: Intended Marriage
Event Date: 19 Apr 1874
Event Place: St Elphins, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Gender: Male
Age: 30y
Father's Name: John Pennington
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Ann Martland
Spouse's Father's Name: John Martland

Possibly John Pennington first marriage,


Name:
John Pennington, Clerk
Birth Year:
abt 1847
Age:
25
Marriage Date:
26 Feb 1872
Parish:
Liverpool, All Saints
Spouse's Name:
Elizabeth Oates, 23
Father's Name:
John Pennington, Under Looker
Spouse Father's Name:
Thomas Oates, Weaver

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2197/ ... turnRecord

1871 census,
John Pennington, 60, head, Under Looker
RG10 P3866, F135, Page38

Hi Bert,
I think you may be right with that marriage...

1871: RG10 Piece: 3866 Folio: 135 Page: 38
Address: Cottage Near Blakes House, Sutton, St Helens, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, John Head 60 1811 Underlooker at colliery - Parr, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Ann Wife 50 1821 - Hale, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Edward Son 34 U/m 1837 Glass cutter - Sutton, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Joseph Son 28 U/m 1843 Land and Mines surveyor - Rainford, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, John Son 23 U/m 1848 Clerk - Sutton, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, William Son 13 U/m 1858 Scholar - Sutton, Lancashire

Firstly, why did I post this in "Not Genealogy"....................?? , maybe you will all get a clue when you try to read my confusing reply - I get worse day by day.

Thanks Bertie and Ds for your help - much appreciated. Don't know why I didn't think of looking for Joseph and John on census before their marriages!

This enquiry was part of my search as to who exactly were the parents of John Herbert Atkinson born 7 February 1887 Beaufort St., Toxteth Park. I have copy birth certificate on which his ma states herself to be Rose Atkinson formerly MARTLAND.
I have 1891 which gives his pa as John Atkinson born 1859 Liverpool, his ma Rose born 1857 Newton, Lancs.( other children present too).
John snr's date of birth is the same in 1891/1901/1911 census.
Rose's date of birth too remains the same in all three census.

1891 census 38 Chancel St., Kirkdale - there is a niece ADA PENNINGTON, aged 18 years born Earlestown. found her in 1881 with parents Joseph and Elizabeth Ann Pennington - who married in 1874 Warrington. Elizabeth Ann was formerly MARTLAND.

1871 census Elizabeth Ann is with her widowed pa.John Martland, various siblings including Rosannah aged 16, dressmaker.

1879 Rosannah married John Pennington ( I now know, thanks to your help, that John and Joseph were brothers)

1881 finds Rose, visiting Wm. & Mary Shenton in St.Helens, Rose is aged 26, dress mantle maker, no indication as to whether single, married or widowed!!!!

What happened to John Pennington, did he die, did he leave her, did he divorce her???

I found two poss marriages for Rose to John Atkinson, but have since discounted them, after getting more details from kind folk on a Yorkshire site, as d.o.b. for Rose didn't match d.o.b. on census.

1. 26th April 1884 - St.Peter's, Bradford
John Atkinson b. 1863 to Rose Maria Holmes b. 1866.

2. 29th April 1886 - St.John the Baptist, Owlerton, Yorkshire
John Albert Atkinson b. 1857 to Rose Ann Congreave b. 1864

I haven't been able find a marriage for a Rose/Rosannah MARTLAND OR PENNINGTON to a John Atkinson.

Any ideas???

I don't think it's off topic at all, shifting this into the mainstream.

The absence of a marriage of John Atkinson to either a Martland or a Pennington or a Rose/Rosannah * between 1877 [when he would have been 18] and 1911 suggests that Rose had left [or been abandoned by] her lawfully wedded spouse John Pennington and became the common-law wife of John Atkinson. No divorce for the working class back then.

And Rose claims to have been married 25 years in the last census which gives 1886. Maybe 25 years was a handy number?

With regard to the 'missing' John Pennington, could this be him in 1881. His occupation and father fit with the earlier census.
RG11 - Piece: 3739 Folio: 21 Page: 35
Address: Ravenhead House, Sutton, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, John Head Widower 70 1811 Retired - St Helens, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, William Son u/m 23 1858 Gen Lab - St Helens, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, John Head Married 32 1849 Book Keeper - St Helens, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Ernest Son 5 1876 Scholar - St Helens, Lancashire
PINNINGTON, Edwin Son 7 1874 Scholar - St Helens, Lancashire

But no wife present. And are those 2 children from his first marriage?

DS,

Yes that looks to be him, with children from his first marriage. Mystery as to why he "left", "abandoned" Rose

1886 for year of her marriage - her first child, John Herbert Atkinson was born 1887 - giving him the appearance of respectability, as opposed to "out of wedlock"...!!

Glenys

big g wrote:DS,
1886 for year of her marriage - her first child, John Herbert Atkinson was born 1887 - giving him the appearance of respectability, as opposed to "out of wedlock"...!!

Glenys

My thoughts exactly! No thought of a when the enumerator checked the Household Summary Form.