Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Really struggling with these for a change?.
I had a paternal Cousin by the very distinctive name of Arnold Joseph Klosser, born (Boer ?) in South Africa C1919. He had 2 younger brothers Gerard and Kendall and their Mother was my Aunt, Natalie C. v Klosser (nee Newman). They all came back to the UK in 1929 [Ancestry passenger lists*] having long dropped the germanic 'van' from their name. * There is only Natalie,Gerard & Kendal on the passenger lists ?
Family story insist they were ALL together ???
Arnold was educated initially at Anfield Boys School and at the age of 11 (1930) is mentioned in the school diaries as having set an incredible speed at swimming 100yrds. He and brother Gerard gained quite a reputation for their swimming prowess and were awarded many trophies. Arnold trained under my Father and became a 'junior' electrical engineer eventually going to Lpool Collegiate and on to L'pool Uni to study Law but was dismissed as a consequence of breaking into the study of whoever kept the Law exam papers and trying to steal them.
I had to chuckle when I was told that little nugget ! probably would have made an excellent lawyer ?
He joined the Royal Corps of Signals and became a professional soldier being awarded the Military Cross in 1942 for a very daring covert mission. He married a Merseyside woman named Ivy Hall and so far I have not found any record of the event?. They had a daughter in 1939 who when grown,in about 1960 married had a son herself (I already know their identities).
Some time during the 1950's Arnold had the wanderlust and left Ivy and the family to return to Africa where he settled in Zanzibar and ran two boats between there and Dar es Salaam. I know all this to be fact from older family members (and there are more than one account) yet,apart from his war citation at the NA,and possible probate records with the South African Gvt(2001) HE doesn't appear to have had any UK existence on record that I can find ? His brother Gerard is also on file at the NA for his wartime exploits but its 'most secret' and 'a closed record' till 2025.
Perhaps ironic, but some members of family say Gerard settled down in Germany after meeting a German girl during the late 40's.
Ivy Klosser died in 1986 in Birkenhead.
Arnold J. died in Zanzibar 1970's.
[Gerard is believed settled in Germany and remains there.] Kendall stayed a confirmed bachelor and remained in N.Liverpool until after Natalies' death during the 1970's. He sold the house and was believed to have settled on the Isle of Man. Both long dead by now I suppose ?
Any suggestions as to what & where I might try next would be welcome,I have run out of ideas.
Couldn't get anywhere with the swimming & trophies leads either.

From the birth of the child in 1939 the mother's maiden name is given as Hall. Still looking.

Kendall appears to have been in Mercantile Marine and there appear to be records for him (seaman's pouch and medal records) on the National Archives catalogue.

The direct descendants of Arnold could apply for his Army Service records.

There may have been something posted in the local newspaper at the time he is listed in the London Gazette. You could try the Liverpool papers of the time.

You could try the Royal Signals Museum.

Found the following on Ancestry

Natalie Christina Klosser born 14 Dec 1894 died 1977 Liverpool is recorded in the telephone directories as living in Great Crosby

In 1944 Natalie and her husband Joseph are recorded arriving at Liverpool on the Empress of Scotland. He is an Admiralty Civilian coming from Kenya Colony and address given as c/o RN W/T station Scarborough. She is coming from South Africa.

There are a number of instances of Kendall on passenger lists and he is MM Radio Operator. He also in 1941 appears in the Post Office appointment books as a wireless operator.

Ivy was born 5 April 1917 according to her death record.

Education Officer wrote: Ivy was born 5 April 1917 according to her death record.

Still haven't found a marriage for them, and I had wondered if there might have been a previous marriage and so Hall not being the maiden name, but there does appear to be a birth that might be correct

Ivy Hall Q2 1917 Toxteth Park 8b 298 mother's maiden name Swift.

If you google Kendall Kay Klossefyou will find an obituary for him. He lived to a grand age but sadly died recently.

MaryA wrote:

Education Officer wrote: Ivy was born 5 April 1917 according to her death record.

Still haven't found a marriage for them, and I had wondered if there might have been a previous marriage and so Hall not being the maiden name, but there does appear to be a birth that might be correct

Ivy Hall Q2 1917 Toxteth Park 8b 298 mother's maiden name Swift.

From previous fruitless hunting for that marriage I believe they either married outside the UK [doubtful] or didn't marry at all but Arnold agreed to give his surname to the child to avoid the embarrassment of an illegitimate birth. From his school and early work days he seems to have been a bit of dare-devil 'Jack-the-lad'. That fits with his WW2 exploit for which he was awarded the MC. Without a marriage to hinder him he could scoot off to roam the high seas once the war was over.

Thanks everyone,I had already done my homework with on-line acquisitions and am awaiting the BC of the Daughter in 1939 to see what it details. I have already the details of the NA record concerning Arnies mission and subsequent medal. I do admire his 'jack the lad' approach to what I have already discovered about him and find his exploits as somewhat 'derring-do' ?

"In 1944 Natalie and her husband Joseph are recorded arriving at Liverpool on the Empress of Scotland. He is an Admiralty Civilian coming from Kenya Colony and address given as c/o RN W/T station Scarborough. She is coming from South Africa."

Actually, they may have travelled together but I can assure you there is reasonable grounds to suspect that Natalie was not in the least bit friendly towards him. I found this in a Cape town Court Repository for 1945
"DEPOT KAB:
SOURCE CSC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 2/1/1/1497
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 646
PART 1
DESCRIPTION : ILLIQUID CASE. RESTITUTION OF CONJUGAL RIGHTS. JOSEPH HERMAN LAGESEN KLOSSER VERSUS NATALIE CHRISTINA KLOSSER,(BORN NEWMAN).
STARTING 1945 00:00
ENDING 1945 00:00 "

?? I know that Natalie lived at 'Craiglands' Serpentine,Blundellsands at the time of her death and previous addresses had been Kingsway L23 and Lisburne Lane. I was taken by my father to Craiglands in 1956 to meet her for the very first(and only) time.
This is where another name comes in,my Father and Natalie were siblings born in Jo'Burg and Natal respectively of a Mrs Lucy Newman & father unknown, who came back to the UK in 1914 and died in S.Liverpool Q1-1958.
Family reports say she had a sweety shop in the "Old Swan" but could have been anywhere in the city as I have had two conflicting recounts of its whereabouts, Old Swan and from what I can determine, somewhere 'near' the old Grafton but I cant trust that description.
Does anyone have a 1931 Kellys/Gores they can possibly look it up please ?
Anyway both Natalie and Lucy were very staid and strong women who in spite of their own failings would never have allowed for Arnie to have gotten Ivy pregnant and abandoned her then.
In actual fact,it transpired that the two of them were holding 'court' over my Father who had abandoned his 1st family to the disgust of them both,he had brought me along as the new youngest hoping for compassion and not be cut out from any legacy no doubt?
It was the last time I saw Nana and the only time I met Aunty Nat.

Further to DS last sentence in his post,he did indeed sail the high seas and bought two ocean going yachts which he sailed without flag off the East coast of Africa, 'supplying the market' with whatever they needed!! Effectively means Fish to the North and guns to the South I gather. He was a pirate !! What a swash he buckled !!
Still doesn't explain how in heck Arnold managed to evade being officially recorded somewhere throughout his UK life ? I have speculated in the past that there may be the hand of the Home office in this as it is so 'Spooky'?

Not sure any of our members hold a directory for 1931 the nearest would be Erika who has a 1938, send her a pm to ask. http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... file&u=638

Thanks Mary, I have done as you suggested and thanks for the link.
Yes, My bad I'm afraid,1931 would be too early for her owning the shop I now feel from looking through some of the dates. One of the people who remembers visiting it wasnt born till 1933/4 so '38 onwards is most likely.

Further to Hilary's findings of applicable passenger lists,I looked further into some of the other incidences of incoming/outgoing passengers and am beginning to form the opinion that all of the Josephs/Mr ? and Mrs Klossers listed by Anc in that category are attached in some way or other and it looks like the journey from South Africa in 1944 was Natalie returning [perhaps from divorce proceedings that were started by Joseph] from Sth. Africa ? (as they must have married there?).
Their separation must have been sometime before that, and in the UK, as he himself appears to have re-located in Liverpool and is listed by Kellys 1938 as a salesman living at 11 Onslow Rd L6 (P1446)
After 1945,when the "Illiquid case" was registered, it is my theory that the 'restoration' he sought had never happened and the divorce went through to 'absolute' ?
Joseph looks like he then re-married a Jessie and continued his excursions to Africa? Although I cant find a wedding yet. (again)
I am hoping against all odds that it was not another 'foreign' marriage ?
I am looking into the whys and whats of military weddings as a possibility.
Both Joseph and Jessie arrive back in England 12th Feb 1950 (Tourist class) his address and occupation being declared just as in Hilary's find of 1944.

He is also listed on the M.V Dunluck Castle arriving solo at London from, of all places, Zanzibar !! in July 1950.

I think I may be beginning to make some sense of it now and offer thanks for everyone's suggestions.
I am following up on the Kendall K lines but it will take some time to complete and am staying positive.

You do seem to have a lot on your hands with this lot, but at least a fair few entries online to help you along, good luck with Kendall.

A long road to get there but found Lucys Beau !
Understandable now how it was such a very taboo skeleton in a very dark closet ?

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/.html

the pieces are starting to fall together paternally ?

A good find Vic, well done.

Even a small bit pf progress is a big leap in this interest of ours! Good news.

A J Klosser served with SOE in its Para Naval Section as part of the Levant Fisheries Patrol he was involved with caiques in the Greek Islands and Adriatic.

He has a closed P/F at TNA Kew which will tell more and help from family members with a proof of death would assist me in having the file opened

Steven

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Vic is an active member of the forum so I believe he will be along shortly to reply to you.

We are obviously curious as to your connection to A J Klosser? who sounds as if he may have had an interesting life.

Arnold J Klosser was awarded the MC for a courageous mission in the Med. I believe VicMar1 has already posted details here in an earlier post. This is notice of the granting of the honorary rank of Captain.... https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notice ... %20Klosser

This is a long one, and apart from the mystery of Uncle Arnold's wartime exploits answers most of what has already been said.
It has been some time since I brought this thread up to date and whilst I have made some very important discoveries recently, they only manage to half answer the original questions while at the same time doubling the amount of confusion.
It must first be said that there are ‘living’ relatives that might be affected by some of these discoveries and so certain elements must remain unclear. From my initial post there are a few changes to make. Earlier this year whilst on a trip to India I received word from a researcher that I should seek Baptismal information at St Johns Church (CNI) in Allahabad. I discovered that my Grandparents were LUCY REBEKAH and SEID ALEXANDER RUFFE. In turn I also discovered that my Father Edward Victor was baptised on Feb 3rd 1898 in Allahabad and had been born April 20 1897. From this I then went on to discover that Natalie had also been baptised but at St Pauls Cathedral in Calcutta during April 1896 and had been born Dec 1984
My Aunt, Natalie Christina Klosser was therefore not “nee” NEWMAN but RUFFE, as was my Father Edward who also had used the name Newman during his earliest years at art college in India.
From research I have conducted through FIBIS and EGGSA I have discovered that my G/Father Seid Alexander was an Hindu interpreter for the courts of justice in the province of Natal, unfortunately he was something of a loose cannon and managed to make some enemies amongst the local powers that be through his eccentric behaviour it would appear ?? I will leave it at that.
I have assumed that as a result of the shame at being ejected from his position in the Civil Service he may have changed his name to Newman when the children were young enough to know no better ?
Natalie NEWMAN then went on to marry Joseph Lagesen Klosser at the Holy Trinity Church Karachi in 1916 and ‘Fathers name’ on the record is given as A.Newman. Joseph’s occupation as ‘Telegraphist’
By the late 1920's I can only assume that the marriage faltered as a consequence of Josephs ‘philanderings’ whilst stationed away from home, as claimed later by Natalie during divorce proceedings in South Africa whence the ships passenger lists detail the comings and goings of them both.
The three children were brought up in the UK and events as previously described are true for them all, it should come as no surprise that nearly all of them were involved in ‘signals’ operations and the youngest, Kendall, should become a ships radio operator after leaving Post Office Telephone Co.,no doubt inspired by their Fathers chosen occupation and achievements bearing in mind that given the date, Joseph will have been one of the pioneers of wireless operations in a practical sense ?
Briefly, Arnold was awarded the M.C for his exploits gaining intelligence at great personal risk during a fierce storm off the Mediterranean island of Crete and (just) making it back to Alexandria.
His brother Gerard also took part in intelligence gathering for the Special Ops Executive which was Winston Churchill’s chosen project during WW2, his file is also still ‘sealed’.
Arnold re-located back to Tanganyika/Zanzibar in the 60’s,overstayed his welcome after their obtaining Independence and eventually upset the local politicians who had him arrested and took away his passport leaving him stateless. He was eventually liberated by Amnesty International and returned to London in the 70's where I believe he stayed close to his brother Gerard until he died.
It would appear that there were more than one child fathered by Arnold throughout the UK and I have erred on the side of caution on saying very much more. Apart from Gerard I think I have learned enough to leave it well alone now. Let sleeping dogs lie perhaps ?