Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I have another family mystery - that might involve foul play or a scandal.

Mr great grandad was James Johnston. Family legend is that he was born Joseph Brereton (born 1857 Liverpool) but he fled from Liverpool to Mold in 1875/6 and changed his name to James Johnston.

I can find the record of James' wedding to Mary Griffin in Mold and he does seem to have used some of his father's details in creating his new identity.

I can Joseph's details up to the 1871 census when the family does seem to have disintegrated. Joseph was the youngest with five older siblings. Father John was married to Elizabeth.

But I cannot find a scandal that forced Joseph to flee and change his name. They had a catholic wedding - so either the priest was in the collusion or accepted the lack of paperwork; not sure how strict they would have been back then in checking that Joseph was really a catholic. It was a shotgun wedding.

Is there someone out there with a keen interest in crime/scandal at that time that could shed some light - or give me a clue as to where I could search next for my clear evidence. (I can't actually visit Liverpool at the moment and have tried a newspaper search on Ancestry with no luck).

Any hints, suggestions or clues very welcome and much appreciated.

Please give the full details from the marriage certificate that you have.

Have you checked whether your library card gives you access to the online newspapers, if not then I would suggest that you join Lancashire Library which will do and you may get a wider database than Ancestry has.

You haven't given your reasons why you think the two men are the same person, what connects them to each other?

Hi

It was said within the family that they are the same man. i was hoping to be able to verify and maybe find out what really happened and caused him to flee.

I have got a copy of the marriage certificate. Date 11 September 1876 at St David's Chapel Mold in the count of Flint. James Johnston age 22 (I don't think this was his age, part of his disguise) a painter of New Street Modl. His father given as John Johnston, Joiner - same occupation as Joseph's dad. A Roman Catholic wedding conducted by the Catholic Priest.

Part of the scandal was that Mary Griffin was just 17 and pregnant at the time with James being 5 years older. But as I say I think he was younger.

Online newspapers.

I haven't got a library card that gives access to online papers. I am living in Yorkshire at the moment so guess I will have to wait until I can get into the Lancashire library to enrol and have the access.

Thanks for the suggestion.

My grandfather had a fierce row with his father - he was 'sent for', as my great-grandfather didn't want his eldest grand-daughter to marry the man she wanted to. A row followed, my grandfather was told to leave the family home and removed from the estate. This was in the early 1900s, and they never had contact again. My Grandfather fled to... Mold! Obviously the place to run to back then.

It would appear your great-grandfather tried to cover his tracks. Do you know very much about Mary Griffin/her family?

It's an interesting one.

Hi Fledge

Mary Griffin was quite straightforward - easy to follow the family through the census returns. She wasn't literate and used her mark for her signature. Whereas James had a trade (as did his father) and has a good signature.

I was also intrigued because rather than just Joseph dropping out of the family the whole family scattered after the 1871 census. I couldn't find his parents, sisters could have got married and changed their names so hard to trace, and his brother went off to Manchester.

Seems like I will have to find the time to go through papers. Good news being that he probably fled, soon met Mary etc so I probably only have to look through 12 months worth - providing he/events made the news.

You can join the Lancashire library online,
http://www3.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate ... atID=13094

"Anyone who resides in the UK may join and it's free."

Thanks MaryA, I will.

Hi Cherylc,

I am also related to James Johnston (Brereton). This is how I fit in:

Christopher Hadfield (1990)
son of
Bernadette Sheila McGinn (1967)
daughter of
John Joseph McGinn (1943)
son of
Annie Roberts (1911)
daughter of
Sophia Louisa Johnston (1888)
daughter of
James Johnston.

Before reading your post on this forum I was also told the same story from my Grandad (John McGinn). We are also unsure why the name changed. How do you fit in?

I wondering if there any chance you could send me a copy of the Marriage certificate you have please?
I also know nothing about Mary Griffin's family such as her father and mother's names. I struggled quite a bit so any information you can shed light on here would be greatly appreciated!

Did you trace the Brereton family to Bebington, then to Liverpool up until 1871? Which brother went to Manchester? It looks like the name changed between 1871 and 1877 yet so far I haven't found anything in local newspapers but I'm still looking!

Sorry if I'm rambling just hope that we figure out this mystery one day!

All the best,

Christopher Hadfield.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately the original poster did not become a Society member and didn't return to the forum, so we have no means of communicating with them. I hope they monitor this post and respond to you.

C+Hadfield wrote: Which brother went to Manchester? .

Hi Christopher,

Walter Brereton went to Manchester,
1871
Frederick Wilson
Jane A Wilson
Walter Brereton 1845, Saddler.
RG10, P4017, F161, Page29

Anc link,
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... h=17618712

Help with Mary Griffin/Johnston family.

1871, Princes Court
Mold, Flintshire
RG10, P5647, F18 P27,


John Griffin 50 Mayo, Ireland
Ann Griffin 46
Mary Griffin 11
Ann Griffin 8

1881, Princes Court,RG11; Piece: 5507; Folio: 98; Page: 23;

Name:
Mary Johnston
Age:
30
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1861
Relation:
Wife
Spouse's Name:
James Johnston
Gender:
Female
Where born:
Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Mold
County/Island:
Flintshire
Country:
Wales
James Johnston 35
Mary Johnston 30
Elizabeth Ann Johnston 13
Catherine Mary Johnston 11
Joseph Johnston 9
Thomas Edwd Johnston 6
Theresa Johnston 4
Sophia Johnston 2

Princes Court

RG12, P4609, F93, P6