Finding a marriage certificate

[stewarts]

When I look up a husband's name in BMD records, I get a District, Volume and Page reference. How do I know which is the matching record for the wife, especially if I don't know her maiden name and am guessing in which year(s) they married? At first glance it seems as though I would need to order an awful lot of certificates for, say, John and Ann Smith before I can decide which is the right one.

Many thanks

[Barbara B]

You can't find out the 'matching' wife from BMD's. If you know the husband and the year and the marriage is in Lancashire you could cross reference with Lancashire BMD's which should give you the wife's name. Hope that's clear!
Barbara

[Bertieone]

Hi,

Put a name up, help may be available.

[Blue70]

Check Lancs BMD, Free BMD, Family Search, Lancs Online Parish Clerks, Ancestry Liverpool Parish records for images if in doubt post names and dates on here we may be able to help.


Blue

[dickiesam]

When I look up a husband's name in BMD records, I get a District, Volume and Page reference. How do I know which is the matching record for the wife, especially if I don't know her maiden name and am guessing in which year(s) they married? At first glance it seems as though I would need to order an awful lot of certificates for, say, John and Ann Smith before I can decide which is the right one.

Many thanks

Spouse matching only started in 1912 I think. Before that the best you can get is a list of people who married in a particular registration district in a particular quarter of a particular year. If you know the husband's name and age there's a good chance of finding him in the census following the marriage. So I note the first names of the brides on the Volume and page and see if I get a match in the census. Doesn't always work but worth trying to save the cost of a marriage cert.

If you know of any children to the marriage you can look for a baptism. Won't always give a maiden name, but again worth a shot.

Also, if they survive to the 1911 Census the wife will have entered the number of years married and these are surprisingly often quite accurate.

[MaryA]

It is more important to begin with the birth certificate of one of the children as this will give the mother's maiden name.

[stewarts]

Hi
Following up on the suggestions kindly offered, I have been able to put this synopsis together -
Using the 1901 census, I found a Joseph Barker (age 48) married to Ann (age 49). At the same address is a stepson – Alexander Cunningham (age 24).
Tracking back to 1881, I have a census record for Ann Cunningham as a widow age 30 living with her children, including Alexander, age 4.
Joseph and Ann had a daughter age 18 in 1901, so I have assumed that they married circa 1882/3. Not 100% certain obviously but I have a copy of the daughter’s subsequent marriage with her age which bears out these estimates.

I want to see if I can find Joseph and Ann’s marriage certificate

[dickiesam]

There doesn't appear to be a Barker/Cunningham marriage in the GRO Marriage Index up to 1900, so perhaps they were not married. As Mary A suggests you should go for the birth certificate of her son to find her maiden name.

Birth: CUNNINGHAM, Alexander
Registration district: West Derby, Lancashire
Year of registration: 1876; Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 549

[Barbara B]

The most recent census has Joseph, Ann and son George. The form states that Joseph and Ann had been married for 26 years which puts the date at 1885. Unfortunately, so far I can't find a marriage in that year. Given that Florence is, we think, older than that I would be inclined to agree with DS that they weren't married.
Barbara

[stewarts]

Thank you all again for your help. Can I ask two further questions (unless this isn't the place to do this)?
I can find Alexander Cunningham on the Ancestry.com pages but not on the Lancashire BMD pages. Do you know why this is the case?
And if I get Mrs Cunninghams maiden name, I'm not sure what that gives me.
Sorry to be a bit thick on this but I am finding/struggling my way through the family history maze

[dickiesam]

Thank you all again for your help. Can I ask two further questions (unless this isn't the place to do this)?
I can find Alexander Cunningham on the Ancestry.com pages but not on the Lancashire BMD pages. Do you know why this is the case?
And if I get Mrs Cunninghams maiden name, I'm not sure what that gives me.
Sorry to be a bit thick on this but I am finding/struggling my way through the family history maze

The most likely answer to the first question is that the birth has not yet been transcribed. But it is in the GRO Birth Index.
From FreeBMD:
Births Dec 1876 - CUNNINGHAM, Alexander - W.Derby - 8b - 549

You posted earlier that you were trying to find Ann Cunningham's maiden name. What are you trying to find out besides that? There is a strong possibility that she didn't marry Joseph Barker. Perhaps he, or she, were already married.

[Blue70]

How about Ann Ballistey? The 1866 marriage on Lancs BMD?


Blue

[Blue70]

Here's the image. Right click on it to save to your computer if it's the one you want:-






Blue

[Tina]

Wow her hubby twice her age.
She is 30 widowed in 1881 so age looks right for this marriage.
Cheers Blue
2 children as Barker in 1901 perhaps they were from a previous of Joseph's and not
Ann's?
just a thought.
Florence 18 and George 12.
1891 holds the key I reckon

btw my Gran & Dad both born in Meaburn St

[Blue70]

Thanks Tina. It might be the right Ann but as it's been said on here we need a birth certificate to do this right. Is the direct ancestor the daughter Florence? Do we have her marriage certificate? What does it say?


Blue

[Barbara B]

Had a quick look for Ann Ballistey on other censuses but came up with nothing much. On checking back over the censuses with Ann Barker/Cunningham she is recorded as born in either Warwick or Cheshire. Don't know if that might put a different perspective on the earlier marriage? Joseph Barker is also down as born in Staffordshire (I think!)

[dickiesam]

Hi Blue,
Good find that marriage cert! I had seen that marriage on FreeBMD but with no birth cert it was just a background note. The groom being Alexander matches the name of the son bn 1876. And the the second thing that struck me was, as Tina remarked, the bride was half the groom's age. Wondering if there was a shotgun outside the church?

Since Ann's youngest child William is said to have been bn abt 1880 and she was widowed by April 1881, her husband Alexander's death should be between then and 1879. I thought I had found it in Deaths at Sea but the surname was actually Currinin! No forename or age shown. Correction submitted.

There are 3 births that might be William:
Births Mar 1879: Cunningham, William - Liverpool 8b 48
Births Dec 1879:
Cunningham, William - W. Derby 8b 597
Cunningham, William - Liverpool 8b 167

I believe Florence was a daughter from Ann's 2nd 'hubby' Joseph Barker?
Her oldest child in the 1881 is:
Births Mar 1875: Cunningham, Christina - W. Derby - 8b - 520.
The 1881 census has her as Christiana.

And Ann didn't have far to move did she? From #6 [in 1881] to a few doors up to #14 [in 1891].
RG12 - Piece: 2987 - Folio: 30 - Page: 55
Address: 14 Meaburn Street, West Derby, Liverpool
BARKER, Joseph Head Md 38 1853 Miner West Bromwich, Staffordshire
BARKER, Ann Wife Md 39 1852 Hampton Lucy, Warwickshire
BARKER, Alexander Son 14 1877 Errand Boy Liverpool
BARKER, William Son 11 1880 Scholar Liverpool
BARKER, Florence Dtr 9 1882 Scholar Liverpool
BARKER, George Son 2 1889 Liverpool
Plus 4 boarders.

[dickiesam]

On checking back over the censuses with Ann Barker/Cunningham she is recorded as born in either Warwick or Cheshire.

I think that 1881 Hampton, Cheshire entry is a definite mistake by the enumerator because he got the Hampton bit right. Later she is from with Hampton Lucy, Warwickshire.

And because Ann only moved a few doors up Meaburn Street, and there no death showing up for Alexander, I am beginning to think she was a deserted wife in 1881 and called herself widowed to 'save face'. So she couldn't marry Joseph?

Edited to add: In Civil Registrations, Hampton Lucy comes under Warwick.

[Blue70]

There's an 1871 Census on Ancestry showing an Ann Cunningham as a 20 year old widow if it's the same Ann perhaps she was deserted as was suggested.


Blue

[Katie]

Perhaps Alexander was a serial Bigamist. I found the following baptism St. Peter

Name: Ellen Cunningham
Baptism Date: 7 Feb 1858
Parish: Liverpool St Peter
Address: Tyndale Street?
Father's Name: Alexander Cunningham-Fireman
Mother's name: Jane Cunningham

Marriage St. Johns

Name: Alexander Cunningham
Birth Year: abt 1831
Age: 23
Marriage Date: 20 Mar 1854
Parish: Liverpool St John
Spouse's Name: Jane Forsyth
Father's Name: Andrew Cunningham
Spouse Father's Name: George Forsyth
[Geroge Forsyth]

Also this baptism also at St. Peters

Name: Margaret Alexandra Cunningham
Birth Date: 1 Feb 1864
Baptism Date: 10 Mar 1864
Parish: Liverpool St Peter
Father's Name: Alexander Cunningham-Fireman
Address: Slade Street
Mother's name: Amelia Cunningham

Can't find a marriage of a Alexander to a Amelia

Looks like Alexander Cunningham is with his Parents in Cranmer Street in 1851

Andrew Cunningham 44
Margaret Cunningham 43
Alexander Cunningham 20
Catherine Cunningham 14
Eleanor Cunningham 12
Patrick Mc Cormick 30
Mary Mc Cormick 29
Joseph Mc Cormick 2

Piece: 2177
Folio: 693
Page Number: 75

Quite a few Marriages at St. John for Children of Andrew Cunningham