Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I am looking for the marriage of Thomas Alfred Evans.
Thomas was born to Edward Evans and Ellen Evans/Carpenter 3 December 1901 at 3 Moorecombe Street, Walton. Edward (father) was a Slaters Labourer.
Thomas died 14 June 1933 107 Rice Lane.
The informant on his death certificate is Alice Evans Widow of deceased. Address at time of death, 24 Sandy Lane Bootle.
I had ordered a marriage certificate for Thomas and Alice Price. That was not the correct marriage.
I have looked at Lancashire BDM but not found anything.
I am also looking for the birth of Thomas’s brother Edward Evans.
Evans appears on 1911 census as a 19yr old living with his parents and brothers at 52 Clifford St. Bootle.
Edward is a Carter Cartman for a fish dealer.
Again I have searched for a birth with no results.
Both, Thomas and Edward were my grandfather’s brothers.
I do have an Ancestry Sub.
Any help on either of these queries would be very much appreciated.
Thank you.

Barby

Can you give the details from the marriage certificate that you have and also advise why you believe it to be incorrect.

What children did they have and please can you give dates as they should give the mother's maiden name in the indexes.

Hi Mary,
Thank you for your quick reply.
Unfortunately I do not have the marriage certificate.
When I ordered the certificate from the GRO with the details I had, they came back to me, refunded my $ and said it was the incorrect marriage.
I do not know if there are any children. Would dearly love to find anything on them.

Thank you.

Barby

Mary should have said I ordered the Cert I ordered was
Alice Price 1929 Dec Bucklow 8a 347

Regards
Barby

Barby wrote: When I ordered the certificate from the GRO with the details I had, they came back to me, refunded my $ and said it was the incorrect marriage.

I think we need to know what details you gave to make them say it was incorrect, did you give the fathers name perhaps or an address?

Bucklow covers areas of Cheshire rather than Liverpool, why do you suspect they married there?

Mary,

The information I gave them was the basic info.
Gave full name of Thomas Alfred Evans with the GRO registration.
I cannot find where I can insert other info when applying for records these days. Use to be able to do it.

There is another marriage that I have just found for Thomas A Evans at Nantwich, Cheshire in 1931 8A 694. married to Alice Hughes.
I have 50 free credits on Find my past at the moment so looking there also.

Thanks.
Barby

Mary didn't answer your question fully.

I have no idea where they would have married but most of the family including the parents were all married in the West Derby area so naturally I looked at that area.
The address on the death cert also makes me think they may have married in the West Derby Area.
I am not familiar with the Cheshire area at all as my concentration has been till now on West Derby and Manchester.

Barby

Mary,
I have just looked on Goggle Maps to familiarise myself with where exactly Nantwich is. I note that it is relatively close to Wrexham.
Wrexham is where Edward Evans, Thomas's father was born. So I guess there is always a possibility that the Nantwich marriage is a probable one!!

Barby

Checking for baptisms, first looked back to the 1901 census, can you confirm that this is the correct family?

RG13; Piece: 3502; Folio: 163; Page: 43.
7 The Barracks, West Derby
Edward Evans Head M 48 Slater's Labourer Wrexham, Wales
Ellen Wife M 39 Bristol
Edward son 6 Bootle Lancashire
Walter son 4 Liverpool
Ellen daur 10 months "
Sarah " 10 months "

I'm wondering if when you gave the full name of Thomas Alfred, he actually married with just Thomas A and they were being fairly picky. When you are ordering from the GRO don't say that you have the GRO reference, then it will give you a form to complete with other details ie include bride's and father's names for example, however you do have to give a year and they will search one year either side of this, if it's not found then they will refund your money and you can also try again with a different set of years.

I think if I were you I would try without the bride's name, as none are showing up in a likely location with the name Alice, it could be that it was a middle name, I would try with the father's name instead.

The marriage you found for Alice Price took place in Ashton-upon-Mersey, St Mary, listed on the CheshireBMD site, although it's not completely out of order that this would be him, it is a little unlikely.

Is this Edwards marriage?

Edward Evans
Helena Rosina Carpenter
1907, West Derby, 8b 681

Hi Barby,
I believe there is a typo in your post for the 1911 family address. Should be 53 Clifford Street, not 52.

Re Edward's birth, there are 5 possibles coming up based on his 1911 age of 19, giving 1892. Allowing 1 year either side gave these...

Births Mar 1891: Evans, Edward Stanley - W. Derby - 8b - 480
Births Sep 1891:
Evans, Edward - W. Derby - 8b - 396
Evans, Edward Peter - W. Derby - 8b - 254
Births Jun 1893:
Evans, Edward - W. Derby - 8b - 485
Evans, Edward Dean - W. Derby - 8b - 433

Because full names are usually given in the 1911 I would suggest he is either 1891 or 1893, plain Edward. When you go to the GRO site http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp and get to the 'Certificate choice' page, after ticking the Birth Cert box there's a question at the bottom asking whether the GRO reference is known. Tick the 'No' box and just enter the year of the birth you are interested in. Even if you do know the Index Reference [Qtr, Volume and Page numbers, etc], don't enter anything else here.

The 'Delivery address details' page comes next and after that a new page will open allowing you to enter the names of the parents including the mother's maiden name in the case of a birth cert application. The GRO will do a search 1 year either side of the given year. If they don't find the cert with the exact details you specified they will refund the full fee.

Just browsing for a Thomas Evans marriage to an Alice..

I can find only 3 in Lancashire between 1918 and 1933:
EVANS, Thomas - Manchester - 1922 to CORLESS, Alice
EVANS, Thomas - Manchester North - 1928 to SNAPE, Alice
EVANS, TOM - Salford - 1931 to PEACOCK, Alice I

There are children born in 1935 to both Evans nee Snape and Evans nee Peacock which effectively rules out those two marriages. There are births to Evans nee Corless from 1924 to 1933 spread across Prestwich [1], Oldham [2] and Manchester [2].

But if Thomas died in Liverpool I would have thought that's where he was living at the time. So I think he may have married Alice outside of his 'area'.

I can find only 3 in the same time frame:
EVANS, Thomas A - Surrey, Croydon - 1922 to SMITH, Alice
EVANS, Thomas A - Cheshire, Bucklow - 1929 to PRICE, Alice M
EVANS, Thomas A - Cheshire, Nantwich - 1931 to HUGHES, Alice

Using the same method in when applying for a marriage cert as outlined in my previous post, you might strike lucky.

Just a couple of queries

Did his birth certificate name him as Thomas Alfred or just Thomas?
How do you know you have the death certificate of the correct Thomas and is he named as Thomas or Thomas Alfred?

This topic also covered on the Bootle Forum

http://www.bootlehistory.co.uk/forum/vi ... hp?t=23763

Saves duplication of effort.

Having read this Topic I think you should see if an obituary notice was placed in a local paper, this may mention children to Thomas Alfred and Alice. Also where was he buried? he may be in a private grave with other family members. Without knowing if he had children you can't be certain that the marriage in Nantwich is correct. If I get a chance I'll have a quick look to see if a obit was published.

RE:

Thomas died 14 June 1933 107 Rice Lane. The informant on his death certificate is Alice Evans Widow of deceased. Address at time of death, 24 Sandy Lane Bootle.

How do you know you have the right death? What was the cause of death and what was his occupation when he died? If he died as the result of an accident there may have been an inquest and, as Katie says, a mention in newspapers.

There is no obituary for Thomas in the paper.

Thanks for checking Katie

Only took a minute. I think she should get in touch with Crosby Library and ask the to look up the electoral or find out where his buried, rather than chase a marriage for him when she has no other information apart from his birth/census/death.

I believe the Thomas A Evans who died in 1933 may not be the right one.
Deaths Jun 1933: Evans, Thomas A 31 W.Derby 8b 443
Incidentally, 107 Rice Lane where he died was Walton Hospital.

Although Barby says he was born in Dec 1901 his birth may not have been registered until March qtr 1902. Perhaps Barby could tell us the registration date as well as confirming the full name of the child on the cert. It would appear he was probably one of these two births...
Births Mar 1902:
Evans, Thomas Alfred W. Derby 8b 347
Evans, Thomas Alfred W. Derby 8b 647

But there is this birth, without the Alfred, in the same year that could be the right birth:
Births Sep 1902: Evans, Thomas W. Derby 8b 394

The sighting of Thomas in the 1910+1 at 53 Clifford Street, Bootle, doesn't show a 2nd forename although it was a requirement in that census for full names to be given. Hence my doubt about the 1933 death.