Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

In the 1861 Census my great great grandfather's address was Tue Brook, West Derby. There were approx 45 properties listed as Tuebrook West Derby in this census. I can find no evidence that 'Tue Brook' was a street name, though I know there is a district of this name. I am trying to identify where exactly this location was, as surely it was a street or road.

The street name following 'Schedule number 45' is Gardners Road.

I would be interested to hear if anyone can suggest if this is a street that now has a different name.

Hi Suzy,
Gardener's Rd Tuebrook ran off 352 West Derby Rd according to Directories.
1894 Gores/Kelly's Directory.
If you could send the details for 1861, we maybe able to help you further.
Cheers

Its not in the 1861 census index

http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.go ... _Index_S-T

No Tuebrook or Gardners Road indexed in the 1861. However there is a Gardners Row here:
Address: 1 Gardners Row, Liverpool
RG09 - Piece: 2661 - Folio: 5 - Page: 4

and down to:
Address: 33 Gardners Row, Liverpool
RG09 - Piece: 2661 - Folio: 4 - Page: 1

We will have to wait for Suzy to give us the link.

Sorry for the delay...
This is the source citation as copied from the reference in Ancestry.com

Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 2735; Folio: 5; Page: 5; GSU roll: 543021.

The street previous to Tue Brook is listed as "St name unknown" (with 5 families listed here)
The street before that is called 'New Road' West Derby.
I look forward to hearing what you can suggest. Many thanks.

Thanks Suzy
There are a few pages listed as just Tue Brook, then Gardener Rd, then Bankfield, Millbank & Mill Lane.
There are some wealthy people on the pages listed as Tue Brook, I'm wondering if it was the village itself hence no street name? but.... there would have been a lot of shop premises, one would think.

I looked for a few merchants listed in the Tue Brook pages of census in Dirctory (1853), the first two addresses were just Tue brook (as spelt) duh.....
Then I found Abram Gartside (image 7) at Tuebrook Lodge...
Will keep on plodding.
Got another one in 1853 Lucy H Ambler 10 Wellington Terr W Dby image 9 on census

Tina, my 2x great grandfather was Levi Jacobs and family listed at Tue Brook (shedule no 21.). He was a cigar maker. It could well have been a shop address. I don't know Liverpool very well - haven't been there, except from viewing maps. (I am in Australia) I did wonder whether 'Tue Brook' could have become West Derby Road at a later stage. What do you think?

I would be really interested to know if this was indeed a wealthy area. That's the conclusion I came to myself, though my ancestor was not there in the 1851 or 1871 census - I think too many children and a much poorer location resulted! (ie, in 1871, at Greenwood St, Everton).

I am not familiar with the image numbers you refer to. How do I locate these?

Suzy,

If you go to link, http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html

Tuebrook in search box, coordinates,338500, 392500
a modern map will open, to the right click on 1851 map.
There is a Tue Brook lane, also West Derby rd, so Tue Brook could not have become WD rd,

It may help if you look at the 1851 Enumerators district HO107, 2192, it shows the area he covered. West Derby rd and Tue Brook is covered.

What a pity there isn't an Enumerator's walk as there is for many of the censuses, this often helps.

If you look at the streets a couple of pages previously you will see some entries noted "Street name unknown", this taken together with the previous street of New Road, would make me think that this was an area that might just becoming developed, possibly earlier land being more countrified before it became more built upon.

If you check maps.google.co.uk and enter Bankfield Road, Liverpool you will see that Gardner Road is still there, a small road to the west bordering the opposite side of the Liverpool Community College so I wonder if it could have been what became Green Lane? Also New Road is also still there, again further west.

No, the 1851 map shows Green Lane, and also slightly east is Bankfield House, with the area in between being noted as Tue Brook, I think it would be an area rather than a street, but one possibly to be developed shortly.

One of my ancestors who appeared to be rather an independent lady, having her own shop and supporting other family members, until her marriage shortly prior to 1871 in which census she is living with her new husband in New Road, off West Derby Road, which I believe was fairly new at that time, so perhaps these were middle to affluent people who lived in that area, the other side of West Derby Road now having much larger houses, the streets on the southern side being terraced ones.

Hi,

I have the 1860 Liverpool Directory on CD, I had a look at the street names and Tue Brook was listed (as spelt) West Derby, and after looking at the census details, I think it was the name of the road rather than the area known as Tuebrook, it is in the area of Mill Bank and going across to Mill Lane (West Derby).

I also found listed in the directory for 1860 (which was probably published a year earlier), Levi Jacob, Cigar Maker, 55 Hygeia Street.

Hope that helps a bit.

Jan

Great information folks, thank you.

Hi All

I had a look at all the suggestions you offered.

I do see in the 1851 Streets Index there is a Tue Brook Terrace and wonder if this is the same as the Tue Brook I am looking for. However I don't know how to use the references given on that page (found on your website) . (I am sure at one stage during my searches elsewhere, I discovered that the Ogden of Ogden's tobacco lived there also at one time).

It does still seem to remain a mystery. But as Mary says, the area looks like it was still being developed in those years. I am still inclined to think that Tue Brook was part of West Derby Road as I am sure Levi Jacobs would have sought a commercial area rather than residential. Do you think that sounds feasible?
But thanks very much for your interest to Bertie, Mary, Dicky, and Tina & Jan.

Suzyemm

Hi Suzy,

There is a map on this site showing Tuebrook, but there is no date given for the map.

http://liverpoolhistorysocietyquestions ... /tuebrook/

Jan

Hi Suzy,
Re:

However I don't know how to use the references given on that page (found on your website) .

I assume you are referring to the Census Summary Page references? These are used to identify the individual Summary Page of a group of dwellings, often a part of a street, compiled by the enumerator from the household forms completed by the respective heads of families etc, resident there.

When you are about to search in a census, the details entry page will have a section where you can type in the relevant Piece #, Folio # and Page # for a specific census if someone has already found information for you. The full reference for a specific page could be something like HO109 [for 1841 and 1851 and RG09 to RG14 thereafter] - Piece: 1234 - Folio: 567 - Page: 89. Sometimes for brevity, we will type it as HO109 [or just the census year] - 1234 - 567 - 89.

The result will be a list of the people entered on that Summary Page. From there you can then view the Page itself with the address and other details.

suzyemm, please would you e-mail me at jdwwk [at] btinternet.com, because Levi Jacob was my great grandfather, my mother's father. Her mother was Harriet Jacob, daughter of Levi, and you must be descended from one of her siblings.

As for Levi not living in a commercial district, I have no idea where he lived, but his cigar business was in Bold Street in Liverpool city centre, now rather down at heel, but then very fashionable, and my mother (died 1997, aged 95) had vivid memories of visiting her grandfather in his shop.

Hope this helps and it would be great to have contact with a distant relative. There aren't many of my generation now left! I'm 78.

email address changed to prevent spamming, change [at] to @ to use MA

Hi and welcome to the forum. I have amended your email address in your post for security reasons. It is a while since Suzyemm has been on our forum, however, she is still a member and indeed still a Society member, so hoping that she will receive notification that you have posted and pop along to reply.