Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi was wondering if you could help looking for my G Grandfather RICHARD DALZELL born about 1856 Liverpool have found him married 1877 he died 1893 but can't find he born or on the 1861 1871 census on the 1881 they spell his name DOGILL. Do you know where I can look thank you

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Have looked in my 1881 directory and can only find a Thomas Dalzell, is he any relation?

Thomas was with
Burnyeat & Dalzell , ships store dealers, ships chandlers and others at
10 Litherland alley and 19 Crooked lane

Can we have some more information please, like wife's name, date and place of marriage etc.

Hi and welcome,
Lots of people here ready to help but need a little more information.

If you don't already have it, I suggest you get his marriage cert to find his father's name and occupation to help trawl the censuses. Include the names of witnesses as well.

Marriage: DALZELL, Richard and BALL, Mary
Registration district: Liverpool.
Year of registration: 1877; Jun qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 10

Brief for now,

Father John, Occupation, Carter, 1829

Wife, Mary Ball

1871 Census

John Dalzell 40 married labourer b. Ireland
Robert Dalzell son 14 labourer b. Liverpool
Elizabeth Dalzell daughter 11 scholar b.Liverpool
Jane Dalzell daughter 3 b. Liverpool

Looks like 6 Penn Street
Civil Parish Liverpool
Ecclesiastical Parish St Anne
RG10 Piece 3791 Folio 90 Page 26

Hmmm!
Wondering if we have a mystery man here?

Birth: DALZELL, Robert
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1857; Dec qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 17

1861: The only John D bn abt 1829..
RG09 - Piece: 2650 - Folio: 4 - Page: 5
Address: 14 Grosvenor Street, Liverpool
DALZELL, John - Head - 32 - Cotton & Corn Porter - Ireland
DALZELL, Sarah Lane - Wife - 32 - Ireland
DALZELL, Robert - Son - 3 - Liverpool
DALZELL, Elizabeth - Dtr - 0 (7M) - Liverpool.

1871:
RG10 - Piece: 3791 - Folio: 90 - Page: 26
Address: 6 Peover Street, Liverpool.
DALZELL, John - Head - Md - 40 - Labourer - Ireland
DALZELL, Robert - Son - 14 - Liverpool.
DALZELL, Elizabeth - Dtr - 11 - Liverpool.
DALZELL, Jane - Dtr - 3 - Liverpool.

All Saints Liverpool. 13 May. 1877

Richard Dalzell, 21, bch, 55 Dryden Street, Father, John Dalzell, Carter,
Mary Ball, 19 spin, 20 Court House, Dryden St Father, Thomas Ball, Mariner

Witnesses, John Gibson, Catherine Gibson

I think I've messed up here
Found ROBERT when it should be RICHARD

So scrub 1871 census

Think you may have followed me DS and got the wrong name too, sorry

Was 'carter' wishful thinking since that was his own trade? haven't found a Richard yet. Even searched on *z* etc.

1881:
RG11 - Piece: 3704 - Folio: 77 - Page: 20
Address: 61 Balm Street, West Derby
DALZELL, John - Head - 53 - Laborer - Ireland
DALZELL, Sarah - Wife - 52 - Ireland

1891 Census

at 105 Gordon Street

Richard Dalzell 34 carter b. Liverpool
Mary wife 33 b. Liverpool
John 13
Mary 11
Catherine 8
Margaret 6
Samuel 4
their children all born Liverpool

RG12 Piece 2952 Folio 25 Page 43

erika wrote:I think I've messed up here
Found ROBERT when it should be RICHARD

So scrub 1871 census

Think you may have followed me DS and got the wrong name too, sorry

No Erika, I didn't follow you.... It was an independent effort after I found the Robert birth and having seen Robert with a father John while trawling the censuses.

dickiesam wrote:Was 'carter' wishful thinking since that was his own trade? haven't found a Richard yet. Even searched on *z* etc.

1881:
RG11 - Piece: 3704 - Folio: 77 - Page: 20
Address: 61 Balm Street, West Derby
DALZELL, John - Head - 53 - Laborer - Ireland
DALZELL, Sarah - Wife - 52 - Ireland

Maybe they wrote his name down wrong, Robert/Richard!!!

There is a Robert Baptism with parents John and Sarah.

Found a burial for Richard Dalzell at Ford Cemetery on 27 August 1893 age 37
Died at Liverpool Workhouse, but I expect that was the hospital

Fathers Marriage,

18 Aug 1851, All Saints Liverpool

John Dalzell 22 bch Carter, Russel Buildings, Collingwood St, Father Samuel Dalzell, Policeman
Ellen Holdbrook, 20, spin, (same Add) Father, William Holdbrook, Labourer

Witnesses, Edward&Mary Murphy

Looks good Bertie especially as Richard called a son Samuel

1871, 9 Beuledi St?

Ellen Dalsell head, widow, 40?, charwoman, Ireland
John, son, unm, 17, Tinsmith, Ireland

Rg10 P3761 F82, P38

Looks more like Dalzell on census form, transcribed Dalsell

Bertieone wrote:1871, 9 Beuledi St?

Benledi Street - still there now, although a new housing estate, off Scotland Road.

Hi Erika
Your post today has the same info as a tree in Anx including wife, 5 kiddies and Richard's father John.
No mother listed.
Samuel died in 1900 12yrs old, John Thomas 1930 52yrs.
No more info for Mary or Catherine.
Margaret married Charles Morris and died in N.Z 1966 80yrs.
Mary nee Ball bn Rostrevor Ire (parents Thos & Catherine nee Moorhead) died in 1903 Blackburn 45yrs.
I hope this helps.

This would have been much easier if the Richard was our very own Dagleish!!

Hi All thank you for the message you all are right I have all that information. Richard married Mary Ball at All Saints Church 1877 witnesses John & Catherine Gibson they are suppose to be cousins Richard father is John Dalzell he is a Carter. The John Dalzell & Ellen Holdbrook was married also at All Saints she is the aunt to John Gibson but can't join the dots to the that why I am a bit lost.