Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I'm trying to trace the origins of John Noll, according to census returns he was born around 1838.

I have him in the census returns from 1871 onwards but he isn't consistent with his place of birth (Liverpool 1871 &1881, Ireland 1891)

He was married to Jane Riley on 22nd April 1866 in All Saints Church, Liverpool and his father's information on the certificate is Peter Noll, occupation farmer.

I haven't been able to find John or his father before 1871. I suspect that he may have moved into Liverpool around the time he was married, but then he said that he was born there, the family believed that he was from German stock but have no evidence for that.

John Noll died in 1892 in Liverpool in Coburg Dock after being caught up in the hoisting rope and thrown into the hold of the ship he was unloading (the Bonny), fracturing his skull and killing him instantly.

Any help appreciated.
Amanda

To assist it may be of advantage to give an idea of where in Liverpool they lived. From the earliest resource you have the details are:

Marriage at All Saints, Liverpool - 22 April, 1866
John Noll 28 Bachelor Mariner 44 Lawrence Street
Father Peter Noll occupation Farmer
Jane Riley 28 Spinster 44 Lawrence Street
Father William Riley Blockmaker
John Noll signed his mark X
Jane Riley signed her name
Witnesses were Edward Powell and Sarah Powell.

Thanks Mary, that is the earliest address I have for them, they stayed in Toxteth after marrying.

I've just found John Noll on some crew lists for 1891, the year of birth matches but his place of birth is given as Londonderry. Maybe the 1891 census was correct and he was from Ireland?

Perhaps a clue...
I see on the 1871 census entry for John Noll's household that there's a Mary Owens - Mother - widow - 60 - Lancashire. Whose mother is she? If John's we might find a Noll/Owens marriage after he was born.

Hi Amanda
With his father Peter being a farmer, I'd be inclined to think he was back in Ireland.
What a tragic end to John's life, very sad indeed. He was at 30 Grierson St at time of death.
Maybe Mary Owens 60 wid bn Lpool is Jane's mother?

She was Jane's mother, originally Mary Lloyd, she married William Riley and had 3 daughters, was widowed, married Owen Owens in 1845 and had 4 more children then was widowed again. The Riley children were enumerated as Owens but of course their official records such as marriages had to use their correct surname.

I found the newspaper account of John's death, the family story was that he was drunk and fell down the ships hold so it was good to be able to clear his name; the coroner recorded that '[Noll] who was described as a very steady, sober man, was caught by the bight of the hoisting rope, lifted into the air, and thrown into the hold. He was so much hurt that death took place in a very few minutes.'
He was buried in St James Cemetery but his memorial stone hasn't survived.

Thanks for reply. What a sad life Mary had losing her husbands?
Pleased indeed to read about John not being D & D at the time of his death.

Noll would appear to be a relatively unusual name in Ireland. There are none in either the 1901 and 1911 censuses. A major trawl of events, all available counties, on http://www.rootsireland.ie/ didn't give any hits from 1800. Griffiths Valuation didn't give any hits either. Wondering if Noll was originally something else like Nolloy, Connoll, Ganoll and Hanoll, all names in the Valuation, and has been mutated.

However, I got 40 hits for Noll in the England 1871 [all counties]! Mainly down south but a couple up North. The 1861 gave up 54 hits!