Lucy Carroll - West Derby

[sun1c]

Hi, I believe my great grandmother Lucy Carroll was born in West Derby in 1859 but I can't find a birth registration. I have a baptism in St Joseph's in October and census entries for 1861/71/81. She then moves south and marries my great grandfather, and as far as I can see she never returns (although he does!). Her parents were William and Elizabeth (nee Wareing). He was a painter. I wondered if anyone else is researching this family?
Suni1c

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Just for starters, could the family have been in Manchester even if only temporarily around he time of Lucy's birth? There are two possible birth registrations

Q1 1859 CARROLL Lucy Manchester 8d 320
Q2 1859 CARROLL Lucy Salford 8d 65

They may have removed (back?) to Liverpool very quickly after the birth and the christening taken place there.

I would apply to the GRO for the birth certificate but claiming that you don't have the required reference, but giving the parents names and if the entries don't match these you should not be charged.

Would you please give the details of her marriage and where you come across her husband next after this.

[sun1c]

Lucy goes to work in Bangor and meets Joseph Thompson, whose family run the Liquor Vaults pub there. They marry on 27th Feb 1889 in St Catherine's Church, Birmingham and live there for a few years before moving to Portsmouth, where they stay for the rest of their lives, except that on the 1911 census Lucy and her children are in Portsmouth, but Joseph appears to be living and working in Liverpool. He does return to Portsmouth (and Lucy) and runs an Oyster Bar there for years.

Thanks for the birth details - I had seen those and discounted them. I will apply for the certificates.

Sun1c

[MaryA]

I look forward to seeing whether you get any result from a certificate, make sure you don't own up to having a reference, you want them to check the parents, IF you are sure of them.

[Hilary]

It is possible the birth was not registered. Have you found registrations for the births of Lucy's siblings? Before 1875 the responsibility for registering a birth fell on the local registrar. It was only from 1875 that the mother became responsible for tegistering the birth and could be fined if she didn't.

[sun1c]

Thank you - I didn't realise that - I thought they had to register from 1837. I'll look for the siblings.

[Hilary]

Births were supposed to be registered from 1837 but they weren't always. This taken from the Devon Record Office web page explains it

1837-1874

On 1st July 1837, the recording of births, marriages and deaths began. The country was divided into Registration Districts, each under the control of a Superintendent Registrar.

When civil registration was introduced, it was the responsibility of these Registrars to see that births and deaths were registered in their own sub-districts. Each Registrar gathered these records from the sub-districts and sent copies to the Registrar General in London, four times a year.

Births

Note that parents were not bound to give birth information unless requested by the Registrar. Some were not truthful about the date of birth, as they had to pay if the registration was more than 6 weeks after the birth. Some parents thought baptism was a legal alternative.

[simone]

Sorry didn't get chance to get back to this after I saw it on Facebook but great advice as ever from Mary and Hilary

Simone x