Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I apologize for even asking this question, but I'm bleary eyed and find it hard to believe I can't find the grave sites for my great grandparents, John and Harriet Radley. They both died at home: Ditchfield Road, Ditton-Hough Green, Widnes, Lancaster. John in 1919. Harriet in 1945. I have searched ancestry.com, the Lancashire Parish Records, Ancestor Search in the County of Lancashire and the UK BMD. And I did try findagrave.com

I have their death certificates, which confirms the dates and place.

Is the next step to contact the local cemeteries such as Allerton?

Once again, thank you all in advance.

Widnes now comes under Halton Borough Council and they have a search facility but it's a bit expensive. I would wait to see if anyone on here has some other cheaper options. Here is some information from Halton Council:-

http://www3.halton.gov.uk/communityandl ... alrecords/


Blue

It is unlikely that Allerton would cover Widnes since it holds the details for the Liverpool area and I'm not too sure how widespread those would be, but almost definitely wouldn't cover the outlying area such as Widnes, St Helens, Skelmersdale etc.

I think this might be a question that could be answered better by somebody more local, who might be able to advise the details of local cemeteries and/or churchyards, so again Chris Leigh should be the best person. I'll send him a message and ask him to look at your query.

Hi Cupcake
Neither John or Harriet appear to be buried in Widnes Cemetery. Local alternatives would be St. Luke's Farnworth, St. Mary's Hale.St. Mary's West Bank, Widnes, or St. Nicholas' Halewood. The Widnes group has some records for these locations but I dont have access to them outside our meetings. Will contact our librarian to see if she has copies otherwise will look up in our next meeting in August.
cheers chris.

I looked up each recommendation and wrote to St. Mary's Church on their FB page and St. Nicholas Halewood had a contact sheet on their website. I will let you know if I hear anything from them. The others don't have easily accessible contact information.

If nothing comes up, Chris, that would be great if you take a look in August or if the librarian has them beforehand, but don't want to burden you with my research.

I am curious that the findagrave.com website doesn't seem to be as popular in the UK as it is here in the US. I have found it very helpful and as I said on another posting, one can request a photo and you can volunteer to go to the grave site and take a photo. Maybe too many brambles in the way?

Once again, you guys are just amazing. Thanks to all.

Our librarian Sue Grundy, found a reference to funeral in index to BMDs in Widnes Weekly News dated 29th June 1945. Went to Widnes library today and had a look it states "Funeral took place at Farnworth Parish Church on Tuesday after a service at Hough Green Church". So it seems Farnworth but not sure. Will forward images to cupcake.
cheers chris.

Thanks for bobbing in for that Chris.

Hi all
I have forwarded a copy of Weekly News Funeral report for Harriet, as well as stating she was a nurse with 40 years experience, it also says she was a native of Montgomeryshire.
cheers chris.

Thank you Chris from the bottom of my heart. The obituary gave so much information and I am hoping most of it is accurate -- born in Montgomeryshire abt. 1859, lived in Hough Green since she was 6 (1865) and confirmation that she was a nurse. Looking forward to what further research uncovers.

Hi,
Looks like I will be eating humble pie tonight...
From a previous post of mine:

I doubt that the Harriet born in Llangyniew, Montgomeryshire, is your Harriet because nowhere in any census does she mention either Llangyniew or Montgomeryshire. The 1861 census reference
[RG09 - Piece: 4260 - Folio: 34 - Page: 14] cites William Hughes as head of household and Harriet is his g.daughter, not daughter.

The confirmation from Chris re Harriett's burial that she was from Montgomeryshire points to the above census reference. The one I had doubts about!

The 'Welsh words' in the address, Tan House Tavern, Tygwyn, Gwaenynog Isa, Llanfyllin, translate as White House [gwyn_Ty], Gwaenynog is a place name and roughly refers to a 'place of hedges'. Isa is Isaf meaning Lower. Llanfyllin is the place with the church [Llan, pronounced like flan but with a th in place of the f] of St Myllin. http://www.llanfyllindeanery.org.uk/parishes/myllin.htm
I reckon the Tan House, because it is in English, was originally part of, or attached to, a tannery owned by the English.

You may have had your doubts but you did find it! good one and thanks also for the translation.

MaryA wrote:You may have had your doubts but you did find it! good one and thanks also for the translation.

Thanks for that MaryA. I won't be handing in my notice after all!

Good one, but there remains a mystery. I took all the names from the 1861 Census and entered them into Harriet's tree. Not sure whether to treat her as a granddaughter or daughter so I am trying daughter with the rest of the children as siblings. In any case, if Harriet's obituary is correct and she resides in Hough Green at the age of 6, the next census she should show up on is in the England Census for 1871. I have tried her separately. Tried William separately. Tried Anne separately assuming she might be the mother as she is the only one old enough to have a 3 year old (and 6 year old) daughter (Ellen, age 6 is also living with William and Sarah in 1861). Looked at all the children for where they might land, but can't seem to find a one.

It would seem I may have luck ordering from GRO at this point and asking for Harriet Hughes, dob 1859 born in Montgomeryshire, Wales.

And thanks for the translation. This is a terrific education. I had no idea I was so fascinated with history until I started learning it through my ancestors.

Thanks again. Bets a/k/a Cupcake

Hi Bets,
Don't go for certs yet... and BTW you should ask for a full refund for the previous Harriett birth cert that the GRO got wrong. Don't ask for a correct replacement.

In the 1851 census there are two older unmarried daughters, Mary bn abt 1835 and Elizabeth bn abt 1841. In addition, while there is a possibility of Harriet and Ellen being illegitimate, since their surname is Hughes they could be daughters of a Hughes son of the right age and there is one in the family.. William bn abt 1843 [HO107 -2488 - 17 - 3].
The nearest registration office would be in Llanfyllin. and the only birth 1843 +/- 2 years is...
Births Jun 1842: Hughes, William - Llanfyllin - 27 - 73.

So far... a bit nearer anyway.

Two heads are better than one. I didn't think of going backwards nor did I think of one of the male children as the father! Reminds me of the riddle -- A father and son have a car accident and are both badly hurt. They are both taken to separate hospitals. When the boy is taken in for an operation, the surgeon (doctor) says 'I can not do the surgery because this is my son'. How is this possible?

I will add them to the tree this weekend and see what happens.

Thanks for opening my mind!

Bets

.

I doubt that the Harriet born in Llangyniew, Montgomeryshire, is your Harriet because nowhere in any census does she mention either Llangyniew or Montgomeryshire. The 1861 census reference
[RG09 - Piece: 4260 - Folio: 34 - Page: 14] cites William Hughes as head of household and Harriet is his g.daughter, not daughter

Hi
I think Iwould keep all options open for now. the funeral report definitely mentions Mongomeryshire, but that would be from a family member presumably and as you have pointed out many times things sometimes get mixed up in the retelling.
cheers chris

Cupcake wrote:Two heads are better than one. I didn't think of going backwards nor did I think of one of the male children as the father! Reminds me of the riddle -- A father and son have a car accident and are both badly hurt. They are both taken to separate hospitals. When the boy is taken in for an operation, the surgeon (doctor) says 'I can not do the surgery because this is my son'. How is this possible?

Answer; The surgeon is the boys mother