Barker Family - Where to begin?

[jfhester]

Hello, and greetings from the US! I've recently been able to put a tiny hole in a very stubborn brick wall relating to an English-born ancestor, who came to the US sometime during the 1830's. His name was Jonathan Barker, born sometime around 1820, although some information I've seen puts his birth as early as 1815.

I've known almost nothing about him for years. He lived much of his life in Mississippi. The earliest records I've found for him place him there in 1839. Census records show his place of birth as simply England, and his date of birth varies somewhat, but we can pretty much say he was born around 1820, or slightly earlier. Until recently, that is all I have been able to find about his origins. No parents or specific place in England.

Recently, however, a distant cousin here in the US has been able to get copies of the death records for 2 of his 3 daughters (my great-great grandmother was his second daughter). While one death certificate places Jonathan's birth in London, the other gives his birthplace as Liverpool. We are working on getting the death certificate of the third daughter (my gg grandmother), which will hopefully give us the tie breaking vote.

Until then, I am inclined to give more credibility to the one that states Liverpool as Jonathan's birth place. I think one stated London simply because they weren't sure, and it was the most famous city in England. The other, stating Liverpool, seems more credible since at that time in the southern US, it would be somewhat less familiar and more knowledge of the details of Jonathan's life would probably be necessary to reach that conclusion.

Assuming that Jonathan was born in or near Liverpool, my question would be where do I start? I would obviously like to find Jonathan's birth record, parents' names, and when and how he left England. Would anyone have information as to where I should start, and what information would be available online (or CD) for someone like me, living overseas and not having the ability to visit archives in person?

Also, would anyone else happen to have any information on Barker families residing in or near Liverpool? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
John

[Blue70]

Hi John,

Welcome to the forum. I've been looking at parish records for both Liverpool and London and the census records for the family in the USA. I haven't been able to find a good enough match in Liverpool or London.

I did notice that on the Castle Garden website that a John Barker, farmer, aged 45, and his son Jonathan Barker arrived in the USA on 7th July 1827 on a ship called "Curler" from Liverpool, England. Their destination however was Ohio at the time. It's worthwhile considering this family as possible candidates because they did leave England via Liverpool.

This Barker family came from Otley, West Yorkshire, England. This Jonathan Barker was born on 26th May 1816 and baptised at All Saints church, Otley on 28 July 1816. The Father John Barker was a Grocer at this time and the mother was called Sybill Lofthouse. The Parents married on 11 July 1815 at St. Oswald's church, Guiseley, West Yorkshire. Sybill Barker died in Otley aged 40 and was buried on 1st March 1819. This explains why she didn't go to the USA.


Blue

[jfhester]

Hi Blue,
Thank you very much for your reply, and for finding so much information so fast! You have actually tied together some Barker information that I had in pieces from searching the web, but didn't know that they were part of the same puzzle.

I had seen the Jonathan Barker born in Otley listed on the familysearch.org website. I had also seen a record of John and Jonathan Barker arriving in the US in 1827. I had no idea, however, that this was the same Jonathan from Otley.

This could very well be the same Jonathan I'm looking for, although I would need to do some more digging. It's certainly possible, since I don't know if Jonathan was a child or adult when he arrived. A couple of things stand out - in this case, it was just 9 year old Jonathan and his father that came over here. As for my Jonathan, I have found no evidence of other close relatives in the US. He had no brothers or sisters that I know of, and certainly no other Barkers from England living near him (there were 2 other English Barkers in Mississippi, but not close to him). If he had just come over with a parent, and the parent had died, it would just be him, which fits with what is known about him.

Even though John and his son were heading for Ohio, it would certainly be possible for Jonathan to make his way to Mississippi in the 12 years between his arrival in the US and the first record of him in Mississippi in 1839.

The fact that Jonathan's daughter's death certificate (from 1920) gives his birthplace as Liverpool might not necessarily mean that he was born in Liverpool. He may have just left from there.

I greatly appreciate your help, and I will certainly follow this lead and see where it goes.

Thank you again,
John

[Blue70]

Hi John,

It should be interesting to see what birthplace is on the death certificate you're waiting for. It all depends on how much the informant knows at the time I suppose. I had two sisters of my Great Grandfather who died in Chicago I was hoping the death certificates would say where in Ireland the parents were from but the informant didn't know.

There are original images for the Barker family from West Yorkshire on the Ancestry website. The three records I mentioned: the Barker/Lofthouse marriage record, the Jonathan Barker Baptism record and the burial record of Sybill are all on there and possibly other records going further back:-

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/yorkshire

Good luck,

Blue

[jfhester]

It should be interesting to see what birthplace is on the death certificate you're waiting for.

With my luck, it will give a different city

This does give me a very good start as far as checking out this particular Barker family. Thank you for the ancestry info - I think I'll have to check that out as well.

Thanks again!
John

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Blue has done a great job there pulling a few clues together, I think we often find mention of Liverpool in somebody's ancestry because they sailed from there, so it would seem that John and Jonathan would be serious contenders, especially if there has never been any evidence of his mother after arriving in the USA.

Do let us know the result from the certificate you are waiting for.

[jfhester]

so it would seem that John and Jonathan would be serious contenders, especially if there has never been any evidence of his mother after arriving in the USA.

Do let us know the result from the certificate you are waiting for.

Hi Mary - I agree, they would definitely be good candidates. As I mentioned in my previous post, I've found no evidence at all of any close relatives of Jonathan in the US, apart from his wife and children, who were all born here. Also, after several years of searching the web, I have found no evidence at all of any descendants researching this particular family, apart from Jonathan's descendants. This would seem to be a good indicator that there were no siblings.

I also agree that it's quite possible Jonathan's children may not have known the exact town where he was born, but knew that he sailed from Liverpool (or possibly London, as one daughter's death certificate states). I will let you know what the other death certificate says about his birth place.

[jfhester]

Not to get too off topic here, since this is a Lancashire genealogy board, but I signed up for ancestry.co.uk to find the records for the Barkers of Otley (there were 2 Jonathans born there - one in 1816 and one in 1817. The one born in 1817 is accounted for, but not the 1816 one).

Well, I found the 1815 marriage record in Guiseley for John Barker and Sybill Lofthouse. I also found a marriage record in Otley in 1806 for Jonathan Barker and Sybill Lofthouse - argh!!

Of course, I'm wondering if this was the same Sybill Lofthouse. I'm also wondering if Jonathan Barker (who some family trees list him dying in 1814) was somehow connected to the John Barker who married in Sybill in 1815.

Yes, Jonathan has been a bit of a thorn in the side when it comes to finding out info about him.

[Blue70]

The Jonathan Barker born 1817 had parents Robert and Catherine Barker so that can be discarded as the father has to be called John if we are looking for the father and son who arrived in the USA in 1827. The Jonathan born in 1816 is the most likely candidate because we know he went to the USA.

The name Sybill Lofthouse is a rare name so I do think it is her in both marriages. There doesn't appear to be any children from the first marriage so did Jonathan die and then she married another Barker? Or is it the same couple in both marriages and for some reason the first marriage was annulled?

There's a Jonathan Barker who "died at Otley" and was buried at St. John The Evangelist, Baildon in 1809. Perhaps this Jonathan and John were relations? It's a strange one.


Blue

[Tina]

Hi John, very interesting post!
Good wombating Blue.
John, someone has a Jonathon in their tree on Ancestry.
Have you looked at it, now that you're a member?
There are 3 daughters and his marriage, death aged 59 in Mississippi 1880.
Cheers

[Blue70]

Just had a look there are a lot of trees for this line on Ancestry. I noticed at least one of them has mentioned the Otley possibility. None seem to have John and Sybill yet. There's only a guess at the parents' names.


Blue

[jfhester]

Hi Tina,
Yes, the Jonathan Barker listed in Mississippi with 3 daughters is my ggg grandfather. His middle daughter Amanda (often referred to as Mandy) was my gg grandmother. She was born in 1849 and died in 1932. I've known several people who knew Amanda (including an aunt who is still living), and no one really had much information about him, and no one knew specifically where he was from. The census records from 1850 (the first year birth places were listed) to 1880 all say he was born in England, so that's not in question, but that's about the only thing that isn't.

His approximate birth year fluctuates. The census records vary between an estimated birth year of 1819 to 1821 (only age was listed), but I also have records from the Civil War when he was a prisoner of war, and in 1864, he states his age as 49.

I have searched some of the family trees on familysearch.co.uk and found some that list the Robert and Catherine Barker family. Some have Sybill Lofthouse listed as the wife of Jonathan Barker, who is listed as the brother of Robert Barker, who was the father of the other Jonathan, born in Otley in 1817. At least one tree lists another brother, John. While one tree has this John going to America, another tree seems to show that he died in 1845, since they include a death certificate. This one died in Nantwich, so was it the same one?

The name Sybill Lofthouse is a rare name so I do think it is her in both marriages. There doesn't appear to be any children from the first marriage so did Jonathan die and then she married another Barker? Or is it the same couple in both marriages and for some reason the first marriage was annulled

There's a Jonathan Barker who "died at Otley" and was buried at St. John The Evangelist, Baildon in 1809. Perhaps this Jonathan and John were relations? It's a strange one.

Blue - yes, since this seems to be a very uncommon name, I would agree that it is likely the same person. If her first husband died, did she remarry to someone related to him? I hadn't seen the Jonathan Barker who died in 1809 - I will have to check that out.

Thanks again for your help, everyone!

[Blue70]

It might be a good idea to get people's opinions on here about the signatures on the two marriage records. I've also been looking at the name of the parish for Jonathan Barker on the 1806 record and it looks to me like "Thelkwick". The nearest location in the Otley area that sounds like this name is a village called Eldwick.


Signature Comparison




Otley Marriage Record 1806




Guiseley Marriage Record 1815





Blue

[Gray]

Hi David Blue,

Eldwick is 7.5 miles from Otley
Eldwick is 6.4 miles form Guisley

Both now districts of Leeds, West Yorkshire.

I would imagine at the time, in the wilds of the West Yorkshire Moors.


Just to give an idea:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=53.877 ... orm=LMLTSN

Blue, I'm no handwriting expert but there has to be something in the proximity!

Gray

[Blue70]

Thanks Gray. I was quite happy with Eldwick until I spotted a place called Kildwick. The place name we are looking for was also a parish at that time so I had a look at the parish list on Genuki. Eldwick is in the parish of Bingley. Kildwick is listed as a parish in its own right so maybe the parish name should be Kildwick?

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/


Blue

[Gray]

Hi Blue,

Kildwick is North Yorkshire between Skipton & Keighley.
Not a million miles away.

Roughly 16.4 miles from Guiseley.

Grayx

post script:

Have always been a little frustrated searching Yorkshire records,,
It is is the largest county in England. Plus the fact forever changing boundaries..Over the years have come to understand the terrain.. Just glad I wasn't the census taker

[Blue70]

Thanks Gray. I haven't done much research in Yorkshire. I only have one ancestor who was from Hunslet near Leeds called Sam(p)son Atkinson born about 1788 I have everything for him except his baptism. The record doesn't seem to be available online.

What do people think of the signatures on the two marriage records? I think Sybill Lofthouse's signature is definitely the same person for both records. The Jonathan/John Barker signatures look similar to me not an exact match but similar enough to be the same person.


Blue

[Gray]

Blue,
Have to agree with you..
I can see similarities in the signatures but mainly because Sybill signs her name on both marriages with the double LL, (Sybill) which is unusual it itself. Plus the fact SIGNS her name on both; thought possibly a 'X' from one Sybill?

Cannot fathom it out though?

Will have a look what I can find re Sam(p)son Atkinson c 1788
Sampson is not an unusual name over here (have a few) although Lincolnshire.. Again, those boundaries...

Grayx

[dickiesam]

Having looked at a magnified image of the parish name I believe it to be Kildwick. According to FamilySearch Maps at http://maps.familysearch.org/ there wasn't a Thildwick [my first impression] but Kildwick is shown with some info if you click on the name in the left-hand list of parishes.

[Blue70]

Thanks DS that's a nice facility being able to see the parishes superimposed on the map of Yorkshire. Otley was quite a big parish and it was the neighbouring parish to Guiseley.


Blue