Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi Everyone,
Is anyone out there researching Kelly maybe from Wexford, Ireland. Peter & Eliza Kelly were in L'pool in 1842, 44 & 48 only know this from B.M.D certs, no sign of them on any census that i can see.
Except for two members of the Kelly family all off- springs stayed around l'pool, a Robert Edward Lemuel Kelly was naturalised in Illinois, America in 1901 or 1918 and is on the American census 1910,20 and 30.
Margaret Cotterall (nee Kelly) went to live in the Isle of Man 1911.
Other members lived in Everton, Tuebrook, L'pool inner city, Blundellsands, all traced up to 1911 on the census. I have a lot of information about various members of the family but would love to get into the Irish connection. any takers. cheers Carol

Hi,
Re the BMDs you mention, does this mean you have located births in 1842, 1844 and 1848? If yes, can you post the names of the children with their respective dates of birth and where born? If you have birth certs what is Peter Kelly's occupation and Eliza's maiden name? Have you been able to locate the children in any census or is it just the parents who are 'missing'?

Is this the Robert Edward Lemuel Kelly you referred to? How is he related to Peter and Eliza?
Birth: KELLY, Robert Edward L
Registration district: West Derby
Year/qtr of registration: 1876 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 258

Hi, yes here goes:-
Margaret Eliza Kelly baptised 27 February 1842 St Michaels Church, L'pool,Residence given Henry street, L'pool, Father, Peter Kelly Book Keeper. Margaret married William Cotterall 4 October 1864,
i have Margaret living in 1881 Pengwern St, L'pool.
1891 Tox Park, (can't make out street)
1891 Mab Lane, West Derby
1911 Isle of Man

George Peter Kelly Born 1844 Henry street died 1848, father Peter Kelly.
Don't know mother's maiden name.

James Kelly & Margaret Jane Shaw married 24 June 1844 St Nicholas Church L'pool
father- Peter Kelly, Henry street, Occupation- Superintendant of the West of England Fire Engine.
residences;- 1851 Owens Place, L'Pool
1861 Parr street "
1871 Wolstenholme Sq
1881 Kent Sq, L'Pool.

James and Margaret had a son named James Kelly lived in Tuebrook, L'pool and he is the parent of Robert Edward Lemuel. So Peter was R.E.L. Kelly's G/Grandad.
R.E.L. Kelly was born 24 July 1876.

Cheers Carol

Here is information for the Kelly who was naturalized in Chicago, Illinois, USA taken from his "Declaration of Intention":-

Record Details for Volume 152
Page Number: 180
Declaration Number: 74480

First Name: Robert E.
Last Name: Kelly
Occupation: Signal Foreman
Birth City: Liverpool
Birth Country: England
Birth Date: 24 July 1876
Current Address: 4111 N. Koster Ave.
Current City: Chicago
Departure Location: Liverpool, England
Arrival Date: 3 April 1901
Declaration Date: 27 June 1917

The Naturalization card is on Family Search you may have this already it gives his arrival date as 1 April 1901 and date of naturalization as 5 June 1924:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1838804


Blue

Hiya,
thank you very much for that, some of that information i never had so cheers.
you lot come up trumps all the time. Carol

How do you know that Peter Kelly's wife was Eliza?
This is the birth registration for one of the children:

KELLY, George Peter
Registration district: Liverpool
Year/qtr of registration: 1844 / Apr-May-Jun
Volume no: 20; Page no: 538.
The birth cert will give you Eliza's maiden name, an essential if you are to attempt any research in Ireland. It can be ordered online from the GRO and costs £9.25. http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp

Margaret Eliza Kelly is not registered as Margaret Eliza so impossible to select one birth from about 7 births between 1841 and 1842.

I have the baptism for George At St Peter's, Liverpool
20 June 1844 George Peter Kelly, parents Peter and Eliza
Address Henry Street, Occupation Bookkeeper.
Unfortunately no date of birth is given for him.

Sadly they didn't use a RC church as many Irish did, it often gave the mother's maiden name.

Hi, yes that is what i have, Thank you . Carol

Hi Carol,
RE:

James Kelly & Margaret Jane Shaw married 24 June 1844 St Nicholas Church L'pool
father- Peter Kelly, Henry street, Occupation- Superintendant of the West of England Fire Engine.
residences;- 1851 Owens Place, L'Pool

Puzzled! Maybe I am not reading this right, but how do you know that James Kelly is a son of the Peter Kelly [and presumably Eliza Kelly] you are looking for in Ireland.

And which man is the Fire engine man, James or Peter? Whether either, it points to residing and working down in the west of England, and not a young man if it is James. So if it is Peter, he can't be the book-keeper father of George Peter Kelly baptised the same year.

I'm puzzled as well.

The marriage of James Kelly in 1844 says he's a fireman and states his father Peter Kelly as a superintendent no mention of anything else.

Do you have birth certificates for your Kelly family?

Hi,
Flippin heck, you have got me dizzy.
Right, i will try and make myself clearer.
James and Margaret Kelly are my g/grandfather's mum and dad, him being Robert Lemuel Kelly (b) 1856 in L'pool, This Robert also had a son called Robert Lemuel Kelly who was my grandad.(b) 1882.

On the marriage cert that i have for James & Margaret the address is Henry street and James states he was born in Ire, father being Peter Kelly who was the Superintendant, now Henry street was where the West of England kept their engines when they came down from Essex to help L'pool out in the fires, I have a picture print of this building with the engine outside.

The two other children i mentioned born 1842 & 1844 both cert's state Henry street and father & mother as i have stated, so which drew me to the conclusion that Peter & Eliza must have been in Henry street at those times.
I hope this has made it much clearer. thank you for your time. carol

i have the baptist record for Margaret Eliza Kelly 27 feb 1842, Peter & Eliza Kelly parents, Henry street, Book keeper.

I am awaiting the death cert for George Peter Kelly and hoping it will give me Eliza's maiden name.
Thank you

Henry street was where the West of England kept their engines when they came down from Essex to help L'pool out in the fires,

Sorry to be 'picky' but why would fire engines from the West of England come from Essex which is in the south east and about 250 miles away?

No, it's ok.
Well i think they stayed around awhile, if you go into the W.O.England site you will read how they came to L'pool.
I have letter's from people who helped me when i was researching the W.O.E years ago, Fire marks which were badges had to be shown on buildings, i can't remember what for now, I have slept since researching it all those years ago.
You think you have problems trying to decipher my lot, how do you think i feel, mind blowing to say the least.
Thanks Carol

I can't make a positive connection between Peter Kelly the father of James [bn abt 1825] who married in 1844 and Peter Kelly the father of Margaret bn in 1842 and George bn 1844. James, in order to marry must have been 'of age' which would put him at least 21. In later censuses his YoB is between 1823 and 1825. The only 'connection' is the name Peter Kelly. For Peter to have been James' father he would probably have been born about 1795 +/- 10 years. Not impossible but fathering 2 more children nearly 20 years later is a bit late for his wife Eliza.

I was surprised to find that from the 1851 census [HO107 - 2176 - 324 - 33] up to 1881 [RG11 - 3616 - 63 - 34] he is a labourer or porter. What was his occupation when their first child James was born abt 1847 or when George Peter was bn in 1850? I ask because a 'fireman' was more likely to be a stoker or furnace-man than the one we know today who puts fires out.

KELLY, George Peter
Registration district: Liverpool
Year/qtr of registration: 1850 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 20; Page no: 424.

Hi Hilary,
I have the marriage cert for James Kelly & Margaret Jane Shaw and it states Superintendant of the West of England under Rank or profession of father.

I don't have all the birth cert's, but i have a lot and marriage cert's.
Carol

Hi,
The marriage cert i have for James& Margaret is the only connection i have with Peter kelly, When researching i put Peter on the back boiler, so to speak, and concentrated on James1847 and George Peter 1850.

Yes I know James abt 1823 was stated as being a fireman and then all through Porter or Labourer, but maybe he didn't want to work on ships or the like anymore now he had a wife and kids.

i am awaiting a marriage cert for a Robert Lemuel Kelly (b) 1834 Ire, married Mary Ellen Miller L'pool 1885, to see whether he is Peter's son also.
I have R.L.Kelly on the 1881 census in Pengwern street living as brother inlaw with Margaret Eliza Cotterall, which should make him her brother.

You think i have been barking up the wrong tree, don't you?
Carol

Hi have sent you message..........not sure I will be any help..........I am still struggling with the Davies side of my family..........but welcome aboard

cjf wrote:Hi,
You think i have been barking up the wrong tree, don't you?
Carol

Hi Carol,
Sorry to appear as a doubting Thomas...
It's just that without a concrete link I would tend to regard an assumption based on a name as a leap of faith. Admittedly sometimes they work out as being correct but I don't see a link so far. In the same qtr of the same year Peter, the father, is both a book-keeper and a "Superintendent of the West of England Fire Engine". With that latter title/job I would consider he was from the West of England.

And I do think it would have been better to go for the birth cert for George bn 1844. On that you would definitely have got his mother's maiden name and perhaps a fuller description of Peter's occupation as well as a home address. I haven't yet seen a child's death cert with a mother's maiden name on it, but we live and learn.

Who were the witnesses on James and Margaret's marriage cert?

Here's the marriage record for Margaret Eliza Kelly:-





Blue