Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

My 3xgt grandfather was a shipwright out of Liverpool in late 1800's. I think he was born round 1852 in I think Anglesey. His name was Edmund Nonnie Lewis, (written on church records)He married Ellen Maria Petersson also of Anglesey in Liverpool in April 1868.( Her dad was from Sweden and mum from Liverpool. Peter Petersson was a Mariner and lived in Anglesea and then Liverpool.) On 1891 census Ellen Maria had written husband at sea.Edmund died sometime before 1901 as she states she is a widow on 1901 census but married on 1891 census. I cannot find him anywhere and would be very grateful for some clues.

I assume you have the marriage certificate from April 1868? Can you post the ages, if shown, for Edmund and Ellen, together with Edmund's father's name and occupation.
Marriages Jun qtr 1868: Lewis, Edmund and Peterson, Ellen Maria - Liverpool - 8b - 265.

If you think he was born about 1852 that would make him 16 when he married. Rather young unless Ellen Maria was pregnant. Where did the year 1852 come from?

Hi Mary
I've found a marriage for Arthur Lewis fruiterer to Agnes Violet Parle
both at 147 Walton Breck Rd. St Cuthbert's Everton 30 March 1907.
His father is Edmund Nonnie Lewis dec'd carpenter.

1881 census Kirkdale, soz can't read street name.
Ellen Maria Lewis 31 married bn Anglesey
Edmund 5mnths, sister Jane Petersen 21 dom serv both bn Lpool.
Ellen widowed in 1901.
Young Edmund is 30 in a certain census with his widowed Mum.
11 Luton Grove Kirkdale, he's a railway engine driver.
There is a death in W Dby for an Edmund Lewis
1894 born 1842 aged 52 yrs.

Tina wrote:1881 census Kirkdale, soz can't read street name.
Ellen Maria Lewis 31 married bn Anglesey
Edmund 5mnths, sister Jane Petersen 21 dom serv both bn Lpool.
Ellen widowed in 1901.
Young Edmund is 30 in a certain census with his widowed Mum.
11 Luton Grove Kirkdale, he's a railway engine driver.
There is a death in W Dby for an Edmund Lewis
1894 born 1842 aged 52 yrs.

In 1881 I think it's NITH Street...

But where is Ellen Maria hiding in 1871, only 3 years after marrying in Liverpool? Incidentally, she was born in 1849..
PETERSON, Ellen Maria
Registration district: Anglesey
Year/qtr of registration: 1849 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 27; Page no: 385.

dickiesam wrote:In 1881 I think it's NITH Street...

Yes, the description of the Enumerator's District confirms it, although it won't be there now it would have been near Sessions Road and the Gaol, you will find North Dingle on modern maps.

dickiesam wrote:But where is Ellen Maria hiding in 1871, only 3 years after marrying in Liverpool?

Wondering if she might have travelled with the new husband?

Good finding the death Tina, Kirkdale area would certainly be covered by the West Derby registration district.

There is a burial in Ford on 15th June 1894 that says -
Open R127 Lewis adult Sat.
However that could be a red herring as on the following day there is
Alexander Lewis aged 90 years R127.

Hello,

There are a few entries on Lan OPC relating to Edmund's children:

Baptism:
8 Nov 1880
St Matthias, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Edmund Lewis - Child of Edmund Lewis & Ellen Maria
Born: 22 Oct 1880
Abode: 28 Nille St
Occupation: Carpenter


Baptisms:
18 Mar 1883
St Matthias, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Arthur Lewis - Child of Edmund Lewis & Ellen Maria
Born: 2 Mar 1883
Abode: 28 Nith St, Kirkdale
Occupation: Carpenter

Marriage:
30 Mar 1907
St Cuthbert, Everton, Lancashire, England
Arthur Lewis, age 24, Fruiterer, Bachelor of 147 Walton Breck Road
Agnes Violet Parle, age 21, Spinster of 147 Walton Breck Road
Groom's Father: Edmund Ironside Lewis, (deceased), Carpenter
Bride's Father: William Parle, Stevedore
Witnesses: Leslie Walker; Isabella Johnstone Todd

Wonder where the "Ironside" bit came from in Edmund's middle name?

Alison

Goodness me, loads of info. Thank you. I have tried to post the photo of the marriage cert but cant. I had terrible trouble reading the copy I ordered so took it back to Smedley and they typed up a copy for me. The is no church stated it just says in he parish church of Liverpool. I dont think they could read it either.

The marriage took place on 1st June 1868.

Edmund Lewis, full age, Bachelor, Shipwright, living in Sparling Street, Father John Lewis, Cabinet Maker.

Ellen Maria Peterson (wrong spelling) a minor, no profession, living in Sparling Street, Father Peter Peterson (wrong spelling) Mariner.
In the presence of Wm. Price and Jane Ann Hughes.


They had 3 sons. John Peter (1876 - 1878) Edmund (1880 - 1942) and Arthur (1883 - 1956) who was my dads grandad. He was an alcoholic, brought on by marrying a catholic girl, Agnes Violet Parle, when he was c of e in 19th cen Liverpool!

I think Edmund Jnr died without marrying as he left his worldly goods to my grandad, Arthur Tudor, Arthurs only living son. He had a sibling who died but can find no trace. Edmund Jnr was an Engine Driver but cant make out his employer from census 1911.

I have Ellen Maria on every census but 1871. She seems to have lived with her husband away a lot of the time as an older lady (no relation) Mary Rowley lived with her.

It looks like I made a mistake with Edmund Lewis Snr age doesnt it?

Thanks so much for your help!!!

Hi Alison,

Ironside! Wow lol, I hevent come across that before. I thought Nonnie was an odd name! He seems to be a man of surprises. Trying to find a ships carpenter in Liverpool in 1890 is a tall order really isnt it?

Ah, have just had a look at Ancestry and looked at the marriage banns. I think it has been transcribed as Ironside. How can I post a pic on here to show you? I cant read it properly but I dont think its Ironside lol


Just googled Stevedore and Agnes's dad was an out of work Docker turning up on the day to try and get work unloading cargo. Hmmm

Thank you

shellywelly2011 wrote:Hi Alison,

Ironside! Wow lol, I hevent come across that before. I thought Nonnie was an odd name! He seems to be a man of surprises. Trying to find a ships carpenter in Liverpool in 1890 is a tall order really isnt it?

Ah, have just had a look at Ancestry and looked at the marriage banns. I think it has been transcribed as Ironside. How can I post a pic on here to show you? I cant read it properly but I dont think its Ironside lol


Just googled Stevedore and Agnes's dad was an out of work Docker turning up on the day to try and get work unloading cargo. Hmmm

Thank you

Hi,
RE posting pics!

1) Photobucket is a free image hosting website. If you are not already a member paste http://photobucket.com/ into your browser and join the site.

2) Make sure the image scan is the best quality image you can manage and is a reasonable size. If necessary you should crop the image to show only the part that is being queried, such as a name. If you don't have an image cropping utility you can use the one on the Photobucket site.

3) Follow the on-screen instruction to upload your picture to the site. Save the picture to your 'Album'. When you run the mouse over the picture a small drop-down menu will appear under the picture. Left-click on the IMG Code in that menu. A yellow box flashes up, with Copied written in it.

4) Now go to the 'Post a reply' box on the forum topic where you want show your photo. Write your message then page down one or two lines. Place the cursor at the left of the message window, right-click the mouse and select Paste. This will paste the code that you copied from Photobucket into your message. The picture will not immediately appear. It only comes up when you click Preview to see your image before you submit your message or click Submit to send the message and image to the forum topic.
Good luck,

Re from shellywelly2011...

Edmund Jnr was an Engine Driver but cant make out his employer from census 1911.

Specific employer isn't named. Simply has Loco Dept, Railway Co.

Thought you might like to know that while Ellen Maria appears to have written she is from Tyngotigol. This isn't Welsh and my Welsh-speaking Welsh wife says this is Tyn-y-Gongl. Ellen made a mistake and crossed out a letter making it look like a t. Ignore the crossed-out letter to see Tynygongl.

Tyn-y-Gongl is now a small village near Benllech. Translated means 'house of/at the corner'.

Thanks so much for the info and help. I tried for ages to read what the Railway was. There is def a knack to reading old writing! I have changed her place of birth too. Thank you!

Hi Dickiesam, Thanks so much for your help. I have joined photo bucket and here is the result

Hmmm, so Ellen was a minor when she married and her spouse was a fair bit older than her. Wondering if this had anything to do with the marriage?

Births Sep 1867: Lewis, Edmund - W. Derby - 8b - 391.
and
Deaths Jun 1869: Lewis, Edmund - 1 - W. Derby - 8b - 331.

Hiya Dickiesam, So do you think that was a baby that died? Ellen Maria would have only been 17. 1911 census is the only one that asks how many children they had and how many are still alive and she didnt fill it in

shellywelly2011 wrote:Hiya Dickiesam, So do you think that was one of the babies that died? Ellen Maria would have only been 17.

Given the age difference of the bride and groom I think there is strong possibility that the child had been born before the marriage. It would have been a good enough reason for her father to insist on her marrying at 17. You might be able to find a baptism for the child Edmund in the Ancestry collection and it may be I am fishing up the wrong creek. Wouldn't be the first time!

It is unfortunate that Ellen was so correct in completing the last census. She could have made a mistake and entered the number of children born to her marriage despite being a widow. Are there family stories of other children besides John Peter, Edmund and Arthur?

The parish church of Liverpool was St Peter's Church Street, the marriage is listed there on the LancsBMD site.

Not turned up a baptism for an Edmund born 1868.

Not sure if this is any help but when John Peter Lewis ( b. 19 Jan 1876 ) was baptised at St Peter on 31 March 1876 the family were living at Denison Street