Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all,

In September we are making our first visit to the UK for genealogy research into my wife's Liverpool family, surname Hudson. Can someone tell me where the church records of St. Peter's on Church Street were relocated when the church was demolished in 1922?

Also, any broad ideas to aid local research for the 1800's would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance.

Thanks,

Doug & Karen German

Hello and welcome!
Someone will be along shortly to hopefully answer your question about St Peter's records. In the meantime perhaps we can assist in your research for the Liverpool area in the 1800s? Post what you know and tell us of any 'gaps' etc, and we'll do our best to put more knowledge into your family search folder before you arrive.

Looking forward to being of assistance.

Hi and welcome to the forum. St Peter's records are on microfilm at the Liverpool Record Office, temporarily held on 2nd Floor World Museum, William Brown Street, up to a date of around about 1900 (I recently wanted 1906 & 1907 and was told that they are not yet filmed). Those still in document form are held at the Sandhills Satellite, this link gives the details of where each is located http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.or ... =23&t=9679 as yet there is no firm date as to when the renovations will be complete and the records returned to the Library but the temporary facilities are good, just that if going to Sandhills you need to order records in advance.

When visiting, try to go to the RO on a Tuesday afternoon where the Society hosts a Help Desk and they will do all they can for you.

Meantime, a lot of Liverpool Parish Records including some of St Peter's, although not all, have been transcribed on Ancestry (I believe there may also be some on the familysearch site), and if you give us details of what you are searching for we may have some luck finding the entries.

Thanks to both of you! From Karen's great-grandfather we supposedly have a good list of her direct Hudson ancestors from 1773, but few documents:

William Hudson, b. Apr 17, 1773 in England (Yorkshire?)
married Mary Bush May 16, 1803 in St. Nicholas Church, Liverpool, England

John Hudson, b. Oct 3, 1806 in England
married Sarah Thompson Jun 29, 1834 in St. Peters Church, Liverpool

Peter Hudson, b.c. 1835 in England, d.c.1872 at sea on the brig "Napier"
married Martha Appleton Jan 7, 1864 in All Saints Church, Liverpool

John Hudson, b. Apr 25, 1865 in Liverpool, England, d. Aug 20, 1950; buried Rosario, Argentina
married Anna Lloyd Jul 27, 1892 in St. Athanasius Church, Walton-on-the-Hill, Liverpool

Mostly what we're looking for is an orientation to British genealogical research, and documentation of the above. We'll be at Kew for two or three days, then in Liverpool for a couple of days, and then on to the North Riding of Yorkshire where William may have been born.

Hi,
Regarding the John Hudson who died in Argentina, is this him and his family leaving the UK?

Name: Mr John HUDSON
Date of departure: 11 October 1910
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Marital status: Married
Passenger recorded on Page 3 of manifest, traveling First Class.

The following people traveled with the above passenger:
Mrs Anne HUDSON, Miss Florie (?) HUDSON and Miss Helen HUDSON

Ship: HIGHLAND ROVER
Steamship Line: Nelson Steam Nav Co Ltd

If you can access the Ancestry website you will find John's christening at St peter's church Liverpool on 19 October 1865 born 25 April 1865. Son of Peter and Martha, Pater a mariner and the family of Everton.

On the same site you will also find Peter's marriage to Martha at All saints Liverpool. Peter is stated to be a mariner of Greville St son of John Hudson ship's carpenter.

Hi there Doug and Karen, welcome aboard
You may like to visit the following on your trip to Liverpool.
All the best with your search.

http://historic-liverpool.co.uk/church-street-cross

Tina wrote:Hi there Doug and Karen, welcome aboard
You may like to visit the following on your trip to Liverpool.
All the best with your search.

http://historic-liverpool.co.uk/church-street-cross

You might like to have a bit more local history regarding St Peter's. My g.father was a Liverpool taxi driver for nearly 50 years. The cab rank in Church Street outside the major stores that were built on the site was known as the Bone Yard.

In the good old days when cabbies knew Liverpool backwards, you only had to say 'to the boneyard' to the cabbie to be taken to Church Street. The name apparently came about because, although the remains buried in the cemetery had been moved and re-interred, when further development was being carried out on the site the workmen came across a previously unknown burial site which contained many more burials.

This looks like William's marriage

Marriage: 16 May 1803 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Hudson - Coachman of Liverpool
Mary Brush - (X), Spinster of Liverpool
Witness: Edward Coventry, Junr.; Edward Smith
Married by Banns by: James Gildart, Curate
Register: Marriages 1802 - 1803, Page 259, Entry 153
Source: LDS Film 93839

Baptisms for their children?

Baptisms: 19 Mar 1804 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Henry Hudson - Son of William Hudson & Mary (formerly Brush), His Wife
Born: 17 Feb
Abode: Park Lane
Occupation: Publican

Baptisms: 29 Apr 1810 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Hudson - Son of William Hudson & Mary (formerly Brush)
Born: 3 Oct 1806
Abode: Ormond St
Occupation: Officer in the Excise
Register: Baptisms 1799 - 1810, Page 270, Entry 9
Source: LDS Film 1656377

Baptisms: 29 Apr 1810 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Hudson - Daughter of William Hudson & Mary (formerly Brush)
Born: 5 Mar 1810
Abode: Ormond St
Occupation: Officer in the Excise
Register: Baptisms 1799 - 1810, Page 270, Entry 8
Source: LDS Film 1656377

Baptisms: 23 Jul 1817 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Hudson - Son of William Hudson & Mary
Abode: Ormond St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: T. Kidd Curate
Register: Baptisms 1817 - 1820 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 11, Entry 2172
Source: LDS Film 1068890

all the above from www.lan-opc.org.uk

What a fabulous response to wake up to this morning. Thanks to all of you. Karen had tried using Ancestry UK at our library with disappointing results, this has convinced her to sign up at home and try again. Thanks especially for the link to OPC, and also for the local color (oops, colour) about the "boneyard" and the plaque marking the site of St. Peters' altar.

Before 1800 official records in the US are few and far between, I'm trying to track my late 1700's "German" ancestors in New York with little success, it makes me envious to visit OPC and easily find many Hudson references from the 1500's!

Yes, that is definitely John, Anne, Florrie and Ellen (not Helen) returning to Argentina in 1910 from a visit to Anne's family. We have a photo of them supposedly taken in an open coach in England, but did not know when they returned.

John's son, Karen's grandfather, went to university in the US about 1921. He met and married a local girl, and that's how Karen came to be born here. She still has second cousins in Argentina, who we got to visit last year. Now we are very much looking forward to our time in Liverpool.

I see you are planning a visit to Kew and the National Archives. What information in particular would you be looking for there?

Really just part of our orientation, seemed like a place to go after landing in London.

Where would one go for death certificates, wills, and information on mariners who died at sea?

death certificates

These can be bought online from the GRO General Register Office. They have a separate section that records deaths at sea. The indices for these can be seen on the website www.findmypast.co.uk

If the ship is registered in the UK deaths are recorded I believe in the ship's log. I presume you are looking for the death certificate of Peter Hudson. There is also a series BT153 register of wages and effects of deceased seamen that may be useful at the National Archives.

There is this census entry 1871 census 53 eastlake St Everton
Martha Hudson wife 31 captain's wife
John son 5
Charlotte 4
Peter 2
jane Hudson sister in law 36 dressmaker
Esther Hudson visitor 25 cook

all born Liverpool

Was Peter a captain? If yes you need to investigate Captain's records.

Wills

Wills before 1858 were proved in the church courts. For someone in Liverpool this was Chester. If you google liverpool Wills index you can then search for any Hudson wills. If these are still in existence they will be at Lancashire Record Office. You can obtain copies from there.

There are also some wills pre 1858 on the National Archives website under Documents online.

Post 1858 they were proved in the civil courts. The probate index up to the 1960s is on the Ancestry website. You can order copies of wills - how to do this is somewhere on our forum.

Dkgerman wrote:Really just part of our orientation, seemed like a place to go after landing in London.

Where would one go for death certificates, wills, and information on mariners who died at sea?

Civil registration did not begin in England and Wales until the September quarter of 1837. Birth, marriage and death certificates are held at the General Registry Office [the GRO] in Southport, north of Liverpool, and can ordered online. However, copies are held in the District Registry Office where the event was originally registered where you could make a personal visit. A phone call in advance to make sure they have the right document would be advisable.

Mariners who died at sea before the 1837 civil registration start will be very difficult to trace. From the September qtr of 1837 they would normally be recorded at the GRO in the 'British nationals died at sea 1854-1890' Index and 'Maritime deaths 1794-1964' Index.

This is the GRO website: http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp

Edited to add GRO website URL.

If you are using Ancestry here is their Liverpool parish records page:-

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/liverpool


Blue

Read this for information on searching for Wills prior to 1858 and also how to order any post 1858 Wills from Leeds.
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... ilit=wills

I'm finally getting back to genealogy prep for our trip across "the pond". It's about time, we leave Sunday night! Sorry to take so long getting back to you all, as you've been fantastically helpful already. Education Officer wrote this, below:

If the ship is registered in the UK deaths are recorded I believe in the ship's log. I presume you are looking for the death certificate of Peter Hudson. There is also a series BT153 register of wages and effects of deceased seamen that may be useful at the National Archives.

There is this census entry 1871 census 53 eastlake St Everton
Martha Hudson wife 31 captain's wife
John son 5
Charlotte 4
Peter 2
jane Hudson sister in law 36 dressmaker
Esther Hudson visitor 25 cook

all born Liverpool

Was Peter a captain? If yes you need to investigate Captain's records.

Yes, Peter was captain of a mercantile brig Napier. There were several ships with this name at the time, so it's somewhat confusing, but it appears it was on its way back to England from Antigua and South Carolina when Peter died. At least we have a letter from Peter to Martha written early in 1872 that says he's leaving "Yankee land" and anxious to get home for her birthday. [We surmise Martha's birthday was, improbably, February 29, since Peter's letter notes that she only had a birthday every 4 years, even though her death certificate says February 25!]

What little we know of the family in England was written down by Peter's son John, the 5-year-old boy shown above, when he was an 84 year old man living in Argentina. John was orphaned in 1874 when Martha died of TB, and he wrote that he was an orphan from age 9. We wonder if he was sent to the Liverpool Seamen's Orphanage Institution, and if so, where the records might be held? Anyone know?

There are a few interesting websites you could read about the Orphanage
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/onli ... hanage.asp
http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.ph ... rrative.71
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_L ... _72903.jpg
But there is also a specific site for the Orphanage http://www.rlsoi-uk.org/RLSOI/Home.html with contact details, you might be able to get a more specific response before you actually make the journey. I believe records will be found at the Liverpool Record Office but Katie will know for sure, I'll ask her to bob in here to let you know.

Hope you have a great time on your trip, and discover a lot more about your family that you didn't know, don't forget that the Society hosts a Help Desk on Tuesday afternoons at the Record Office, 2nd Floor, World Museum, William Brown Street.

I wish you a wonderful and memorable trip across the " big ditch"...enjoy and happy hunting for your family tree.

This is from the National Archives website

What records can I find at The National Archives at Kew?

Alphabetical register of masters (1845-1854)

Consult the alphabetical register in BT 115 which was compiled from crew lists.


Registers of certificates of competency and service (1845-1921)

Look for a certificate entry in the registers. Microform registers of certificates are in the following series:
•masters and mates: BT 122; BT 123; BT 124; BT 125; BT 126; and BT 128 (index in BT 127)
•engineers: BT 139, BT 140 and BT 142 (index in BT 141)
•skippers and mates of fishing boats: BT 129 and BT 130 (index in BT 138)

I believe that there are records to do with masters of ships at the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich but I don't know exactly what they have.

Do read the page on the National Archives www.nationalarchives.org.uk about visiting the archives particularly the bit about reader's tickets. I would also strongly advise that you have researched what you hope to find is actually there. The Archives are very large and if it is your first experience of an Archive can be a little daunting trying to find you way round. Just go with 2 or 3 things you want to look up and you might manage 2 of them. I wouldn't adbvise going with a very vague query.