Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I'm trying to locate the baptism of James Bickerstaff who according to all the Census Returns 1861 - 1901 in Yorkshire, was born in Liverpool in 1825/6. His father's name was Robert Bickerstaff who was a joiner by trade. I can find no trace anywhere on the 1851 Census but on the 1841 Census he seems to be at West Derby with his father.
Thank you for any help offered.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Could you give the full details and reference from the 1841 census and also from his marriage certificate, where I assume you got his father's name and occupation from.

I don't see a baptism on either Ancestry or Lancs Online parish clerk site that fits, plenty of James, even with father Robert joiner but way out for date. The only one I have found that could be near is on the familysearch site

Baptism on 1 November 1829 at St. Peter's, Liverpool, Lancashire parents Robert and Jane Bickerstaff, abode Christian Street. No occupation has been transcribed although there may be one if you checked the original. Without further evidence it would be difficult to just accept this.

Do you have details of any of his siblings?

MaryA wrote:Baptism on 1 November 1829 at St. Peter's, Liverpool, Lancashire parents Robert and Jane Bickerstaff, abode Christian Street. No occupation has been transcribed although there may be one if you checked the original. Without further evidence it would be difficult to just accept this.

Do you have details of any of his siblings?

Hi MARY

This baptism is on Lancs OPC site... Robert is a Watchmaker... there are about 6 other children and a couple of burials too for children to this couple...
Mary bap 1818
Eliza Jane bap 1823
Henry Mercer bap 1823
Robert 1826
James 1829
Robert 1835

Thomas burial 1831 age 2 wks
Robert burial age 7 1832

addresses are Circus Street until 1829 and the Christian Street after that. By 1835 Robert is a Victualler

Simone x

Hi,
Can you confirm where you found James in 1841, listing the census reference?
I can only find 2 born in Lancashire and residing in Liverpool.
BICKERSTAFF, James - 1821 - 20 - Liverpool [father is James, labourer].
BICKERSTAFF, James - 1828 - 13 - Liverpool [father is Peter, watchmaker].

Ancestry has a marriage Thomas Bickerstaff to Mary Wilkinson 21/4/1845, his address is Plumb St, his father is Robert Bickerstaff a Joiner...
her father is Joseph a farmer..

simone wrote:Ancestry has a marriage Thomas Bickerstaff to Mary Wilkinson 21/4/1845, his address is Plumb St, his father is Robert Bickerstaff a Joiner...
her father is Joseph a farmer..

which I think then leads me to the 1841 census you have probably already found
HO107; Piece: 520; Folio: 45; Page: 14;
Prescot Street.
Robt Bickerstaff 60 joiner
Thos Bickerstaff 15 joiner
J S Bickerstaff 16 joiner's apprentice

Just in case this is the one as there are lots of Bickerstaff people around Preston/Southport area, and being found in Liverpool baptisms and marriages at odd times:

Baptisms: 29 Jan 1825 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
James Bickerstaff - Child of Robert Bickerstaff & Lucy
Abode: Fishergate
Occupation: Solicitor
Baptised by: A Hammond
Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1825, Page 284, Entry 68
Source: LDS Film 1278741

I will try to take a look around the 1851 census to see if it is the same family.

Sheila

which I think then leads me to the 1841 census you have probably already found
HO107; Piece: 520; Folio: 45; Page: 14;
Prescot Street.
Robt Bickerstaff 60 joiner
Thos Bickerstaff 15 joiner
J S Bickerstaff 16 joiner's apprentice

Many thanks to everyone who has responded. Simone is on the right track here I think. This is the 1841 Census which I have assumed is the correct one. The J S Bickerstaff on the original looks to me like an abreviation for James J___s and not JS initials. I think Robert probably died shortly after this date and James moved on. James was married in Sheffield in 1859 to Alice Addy, and became a Master Joiner and builder in South Yorkshire, retiring and dying in Mexborough as an architect in 1902. Another Robert Bickerstaff came to Sheffield around 1868 and he was also a Joiner Journeyman - I suspect this may have been another brother. Joiners seemed to have moved about from place to place. Not sure where to look next?

There is a marriage on Ancestry

Robert Bickerstaff joiner of the parish of Liverpool married Brdiget Thopson of the same parish on 1 Nov 1801 at St Paul Liverpool.

He signed she made her mark

I think this is very likely to be the right marriage as at around 60 in 1841 I would expect him to have older children than Thomas and James. I think the 1841 census uses the abbreviation Jas for James as he's used Robt for Robert and Thos for Thomas.

Just to confuse the issue also found

Robert Bickerstaff joine married Jane Melling at St Nicholas on 20 July 1800

He has sons Henry and Willam christened in 1803

But also found an Elizabeth daughter of Robert (joiner) and his wife Jane Dickinson in 1805.

MaryA wrote:Could you give the full details and reference from the 1841 census and also from his marriage certificate, where I assume you got his father's name and occupation from.

Please confirm that you have Robert's name from James marriage certificate.

The 1841 census would make me think that Robert at approximately age 60 might be grandfather rather than father.

If his father's name isn't confirmed initially we may all be barking up the wrong tree.

Apologies Mary A. for not giving this earlier.

Details from the Marriage Certificate are:-
5th Sept 1859 - St Philip's Church, Sheffield
James Bickerstaff Full Age Joiner, Dixon St. Father: Robert Bickerstaff, Joiner
Alice Addy Full Age ---- Dixon St. Father:- William Addy, Labourer
By Banns
Witnesses: William Addy and Elizabeth Addy

The 1841 Census details are as previous:-
HO107; Piece: 520; Folio: 45; Page: 14;
Prescot Street, West Derby
Robt Bickerstaff 60 joiner
Thos Bickerstaff 15 joiner (I think the 15 may have been written over with 19)
Jas Bickerstaff 16 joiner's apprentice


In 1851 the above Thomas Bickerstaff appears to be living at 9 Linden St, West Derby, with his new family. He is 28yrs old a Joiner Journeyman born in Liverpool.

RE:

This is the 1841 Census which I have assumed is the correct one. The J S Bickerstaff on the original looks to me like an abreviation for James J___s and not JS initials.

The census entry on Findmypast has been corrected to J... I had pointed out that the last letter, interpreted as an S, was neither an upper or lower case S when compared with the letter S in other entries on the same page.

This may not be relevant to the original query, but yesterday I noticed some Bickerstaff names on one of the large memorial stones in the pathway near the cafe entrance to Liverpool Cathedral. They will have been in the old St James Cemetery, and the names are in that cemetery's web site.

MaryA wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum.

Could you give the full details and reference from the 1841 census and also from his marriage certificate, where I assume you got his father's name and occupation from.

J S Bickerstaff
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Walton On The Hill
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Piece: 520
Book: 2
Folio: 45
Page Number: 15

Robt Bickerstaff 60 joiner
Thos Bickerstaff 15
J S Bickerstaff 16 joiner apprentice

however i have found a bapt for a james bickerstaff with a father of robert who was a joiner in liverpool but the dates arent right, in fact they are for 1794, and james was aged 4 then, also there was a maraget bickerstaff done at the same time with same parents aged 5 his mums name was catherine and robert and catherine where married in st james's toxteth.

so that leaves us to ask just how sure of his birth date are you?
and does your records include him having a sister called margaret?

There is a Robert Bickerstaff who married Ellen Askew at St Anne's Liverpool in 1831...he is a joiner... suppose he could be a much older brother
marriage is witnessed by a Jane Bickerstaff..
They have gone on to have children Robert, James, Albert and George 1842 - 1845

[quote]There is a Robert Bickerstaff who married Ellen Askew at St Anne's Liverpool in 1831...he is a joiner... suppose he could be a much older brother
marriage is witnessed by a Jane Bickerstaff..
They have gone on to have children Robert, James, Albert and George 1842 - 1845[/quote

This looks rather interesting - I think Robert may possibly be the elder brother of James and may also have been at Dalton St., West Derby on the 1841 census when a Robert and Ellen Bickerstaff had two children William 5yrs and Ellen 1yr. I also think the four children named above may have died before 1851 but not necessarily buried at St Anne's. Are there no baptisms between the 1831 marriage and 1842?

Hi

Sorry missed one there is an Ellen born to Robert and Ellen in 1839, when they are living at Brownlow Street

The address on baptism for all the other children is Dalton Street

Simone x