Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Sylvia Clarke

hi im new on here too ,tearing my hair out ,my grandfather james martin clarke was born 30/03/1877 in kirkdale industrial school,liverpool, i believe his parents were mary holloran (on his b/c ) and george clarke not on his birth certificate ,however i believe he had a brother with him called john ( mary holoran and george clarke named as parents )i can follow james through his life but can find no trace of mary or george ,i believe they may have been in prescot workhouse ,but cannot find any details on them, i have a wedding certificate which i believe is the correct one ,george clarke and mary holloran married in 1866 galway ireland ,this is the only lead i have on them please if anyone can help i would be eternaly greatfull as im about to give up, ive never met my grandparents ,but i have found their graves at edgerton cemetry huddersfield yourkshire uk and im hoping to visit them this weekend ,it would be lovely if i could get even a tiny lead ,as they seemed to have dissapeared without a trace ,-thanks in advance ,silv

Silvia originally posted on the Facebook page and I asked her to post her query here. Additional information is:
james martins B/C says he was born union workhouse whiston ,her name is stated mary clarke formerly holloran , no fathers name mentioned ,but the weddinging certificate to my nanna says fathers name george clarke deceased ,im wondering if george died in the workhouse b4 james was born ,but i cant find a record of it anywhere ,im so struggling with george and mary

Hi Sylvia

Does the marriage have any ages for George and Mary?

does it give any more info , such as Parents, witnesses?

Hi Sylvia,
Is this correct?

James Martin Clarke was born 30/03/1877 in Kirkdale Industrial School, Liverpool.

I ask because children are not usually born in such places, but more often in workhouse infirmaries. I think I found him aged 3 in the Union Workhouse School, Kirkdale in 1881. What does the birth say in regard to addresses for the birth and the home address of the mother?

And where/when did the forename Martin come in? Sorry for all the questions but what is George's occupation on the marriage cert?

simone wrote:Hi Sylvia

Does the marriage have any ages for George and Mary?

does it give any more info , such as Parents, witnesses?

Hi Simone,
I think this is the marriage Sylvia is referring to....
From FamilySearch:
groom's name: George Clarke
bride's name: Mary Holloran
marriage date: 26 Sep 1866
marriage place: St. Nicholas, Galway, Ireland
groom's father's name: Robert Clarke
bride's father's name: Michael Holloran
groom's marital status: Single
bride's marital status: Single

She says she has the cert for ages etc.

Thanks Brian... was hoping maybe the families came over here together as mine all did will have a mooch around

RE:

james martins B/C says he was born union workhouse whiston ,her name is stated mary clarke formerly holloran , no fathers name mentioned

Without seeing it, this cert indicates to me that when James was born his mother's former husband had died, but he was not the biological father of James. That would explain why there is no father's name on the cert. If she was not married to the father the space had to be left blank unless the father voluntarily attended the registrar. She may have already been a workhouse inmate as a widow when she became pregnant.

If that was the case, unfortunately tracing the paternal line back ends with James' birth.

Is this his birth?
Births Mar 1877: CLARKE, James - Prescott - 8b - 752.

hmm good idea Brian wonder if John in the school b Prescot c 1873 is his brother as Sylvia suspects.... wonder what his birth cert says....... Have been trying to find him on other census' but none say born Prescot.... but maybe he's listed as born Liverpool later on as that's where he ended up

simone wrote:hmm good idea Brian wonder if John in the school b Prescot c 1873 is his brother as Sylvia suspects.... wonder what his birth cert says....... Have been trying to find him on other census' but none say born Prescot.... but maybe he's listed as born Liverpool later on as that's where he ended up

I haven't found George and Mary together in 1871 yet. Did find a suspicious-sounding George, bn Ireland, in the Royal Navy though. Hello and goodbye sailor?

CLARKE, George - A B - 32 - 1839 - Ireland [says he is u/m!]
Vessel: Nymphe, at Zanzibar
RG10 - Piece: 5783 - Folio: 39 - Page: 4
Address: Royal Navy at Sea and in ports abroad

mothers address given as union workhouse whiston , james martin and john were put in kirkdale ind school on the same day at the same time by the governers of prescot ,no parents are mentioned ,im wondering if george died b4 mary got pregnant meaning she was a naughty girl ,and wondering if mary died after having james and b4 1881 as im not sure where she is then, i have no idea where the name martin comes from as it doesnt appear ever again,that i know of !!johns B/C states his name was john robert born to george clarke and mary nee holloran it states he was born farnworth lancaster,sorry im so slow at getting back im not too good on the computor ,silv.

if we could only find georges whereabouts or death certificate it may solve a million questions

simone wrote:hmm good idea Brian wonder if John in the school b Prescot c 1873 is his brother as Sylvia suspects.... wonder what his birth cert says....... Have been trying to find him on other census' but none say born Prescot.... but maybe he's listed as born Liverpool later on as that's where he ended up

just noticed Sylvia did day his parents were George Clarke and Mary Holoran

Given that John Robert born Farnworth which is Widnes area.. could this be him in the latest census

19**

Class: RG14; Piece: 24482
Fountain Street, Oldham
John R Clarke 36 b Widnes.. labourere, Iron Trade
Wife Catherane Clarke 34 b Oldham
Daughter Annie 5 b Oldham
John E Clarke 12 b Oldham

1901 census
RG13; Piece: 3809; Folio: 73; Page: 38.
Half Moon Street, Oldham
John Robert Clarkes 26
Catherine E Clarkes 23
James M Clarkes 4
John E Clarkes 1

There's a John R Clarke married Catherine Ellen Ferdinand at Oldham in 1895
vol 8d page 787

wonder if it's him on census and marriage

oh fudge the marriage is Register Office or Registrar attended, so no chance of a lookup

i have john robert and catherine ferdinands W/C but i believe it to be the wrong one as it says john roberts father is john joseph clarke although J/R/C had a son called james martin clarke (who i think died aged about 5) , so the name comes up again ?? but the fathers name isnt correct .-hope im making sense

silv cook wrote:i have john robert and catherine ferdinands W/C but i believe it to be the wrong one as it says john roberts father is john joseph clarke although J/R/C had a son called james martin clarke (who i think died aged about 5) , so the name comes up again ?? but the fathers name isnt correct .-hope im making sense

Hi Silvia,
Were any ages stated on the marriage certificate from Galway 1866? And witness names?
And when and where does the Martin name come in?

And do you have this birth cert? Births Jun 1873: Clarke, John - Prescot - 8b - 584.
If yes.. parents' names and father's occupation?

Yes I see what you mean Silvia it's all too coincidental isn't it.. another James Martin but different dad to John R

hi thanks for helping , i havnt actually got the W/C perhaps i need to send for it ,as there are no ages just their names their fathers names the date and the church which is st nicholas galway ireland ,they are both classed as single ---as for JAMES MARTIN CLARKE i have no idea where the name martin comes from, perhaps george had died and mary had a jiggy with someone called MARTIN thats all i can think of ,

dickiesam wrote:

silv cook wrote:i have john robert and catherine ferdinands W/C but i believe it to be the wrong one as it says john roberts father is john joseph clarke although J/R/C had a son called james martin clarke (who i think died aged about 5) , so the name comes up again ?? but the fathers name isnt correct .-hope im making sense

Hi Silvia,
Were any ages stated on the marriage certificate from Galway 1866? And witness names?
And when and where does the Martin name come in?

And do you have this birth cert? Births Jun 1873: Clarke, John - Prescot - 8b - 584.
If yes.. parents' names and father's occupation?

i have a birth certificate for john robert clarke born 30 /01/ 1874 thats different to the one you have dickiesam thats got mary holloran and george clarke on