Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi !

I am trying to find about my gt gt grandfather William Kelly who was born 1843 Isle of Man, his second wife was called "Ellen". In 1881 he is living with his wife Margaret Ellen Kelly in 2 No 73 Court Upper Mann Street. She died in 1889. In 1901 an Ellen Kelly is living with her step daughter Sarah R Halsall and Sarah's family. His occupation was a Fireman on board a ship!

1901
Class: RG13; Piece: 3428; Folio: 108; Page: 24.

I would love to know who "Ellen" was and also when William died and if he left a will.

Thank you !!

Victoria x

Not having any luck. The Probate Calendars are listed on Ancestry and I believe also now on Findmypast, however there is not a William Kelly who fits your description. Nor do I see one in the Parish Registers marrying an Ellen between 1881 and 1901. Have you tried the familysearch site?

Thank you once again for your help Mary! I think the Ellen's name could be Pender but I am not sure and that they married around 1890.

Vx

Hi Victoria,
A couple of questions...
Have you found any of the children and the father William in 1891? I assume William and Margaret married in the IoM. Do you have her maiden name? And do you have a connection between the Kelly and Halsall families?

Would this be the latter and is it confirmed?
KELLY, Sarah Randale possibly married HALSALL, William Henry
Registration district: Toxteth Park.
Year/qtr of registration: 1894 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 411.

Think you are right with that one DS.
St Matthew, Toxteth - 30 July, 1894
William Henry Halsall 35 Widower Dock Labourer 231 Beaufort Street
Father William Halsall Engineer
Sarah Randale Kelly 22 Spinster Confectioner's Assistant 231 Beaufort Street
Father William Kelly Fireman
Both signed their names
Witnesses Robert Halsall and Elizabeth McCarthy

Goody, Goody!

Now wondering if this is Willliam in 1891?
KELLY, William - Member Of Crew - Married - 49 - 1842 - Fireman - Douglas, Isle of Man.
RG12 - Piece: 2893 - Folio: 109 - Page: 1
Address: America, Paddle-steamer, Tranmere, Bidston Cum Ford, Birkenhead.

Haven't yet found him in 1901 but ten years later.....?
KELLY, William - Inmate - Married - 66 - Marine Fireman - bn Douglas, I of Man Douglas.
Address: Toxteth Workhouse, 126 Smithdown Road, Liverpool.

Thank you Mary and DS!

I have Ellen in the 1891 census living with Elizabeth and Sarah Kelly.

Class: RG12; Piece: 2931; Folio: 24; Page: 43

William Henry Halsall and Sarah R Kelly were cousins - William H's mother was Mary Ann Kelly b 1835 Douglas, Isle of Man
and Sarah R's mother was Margaret Kelly b 1839 Douglas, Isle of Man.

Mary Ann and Margaret were sisters - daughters of a Robert Kelly and Jane Cowley! Apparently the families were not too happy when William H and Sarah R got together.

This could be the marriage of William Kelly and Ellen Pender:

Marriages Jun 1890

KELLEY William Toxteth Park 8b 514

PENDER Ellen Toxteth Park 8b 514


V x

68pages wrote: Marriages Jun 1890

KELLEY William Toxteth Park 8b 514

PENDER Ellen Toxteth Park 8b 514

LancsBMD gives this marriage as Toxteth Park, Register Office or Registrar Attended. I don't see it in the RC marriages, so I would suspect that it did indeed take place in the Register Office as perhaps an older couple, widowed, might choose this.

Thank you again Mary! Took me a while to find the marriage - didn't think Kelly could be spelled wrong! Kelley

Always so sad to see someone in the Workhouse ... still can't seem to find a death for him or Ellen either.

Victoria

Hi Victoria,
Assuming he died within 10 years of the last census, there are these possibilities:

KELLY, William - Approx YoB = 1842?
Registration district: West Derby
Year/qtr of registration: 1913 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at death: 71
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 422

KELLY, William - Approx YoB = 1843?
Registration district: West Derby.
Year/qtr of registration: 1916 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at death: 73
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 346

KELLY, William - Approx YoB = 1845?
Registration district: Toxteth Park.
Year/qtr of registration: 1919 / Apr-May-Jun
Age at death: 74
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 201

KELLY, William - Approx YoB = 1845?
Registration district: West Derby
Year/qtr of registration: 1920 / Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death: 75
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 575.

Given that he was in Toxteth Workhouse, the 1919 looks promising?

Regarding Ellen Kelly, did you notice this in the 1891 census?
KELLY, Ellen - Head - Married - 46 - 1845 - Imbecile 12 Months - Liverpool.
Address: 1 Frank Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool.
And this was within a year of being married?

With regard to her death, I haven't yet found her in the latest census, so this is the nearest match by age [out of only 2 hits in Liverpool]:
KELLY, Ellen
Registration district: Liverpool
Year/qtr of registration: 1905 / Apr-May-Jun
Age at death: 63
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 55.

Thanks DS! Really appreciate your help!

I have tried to find William buried in Toxteth Park Cemetery as that is where so many of the family are buried but he is not there! Thank you for the information on the 1891 census about Ellen - there is nothing listed on the 1901 with regards to her being an imbecile though ??

1901 census 194 Upper Mann Street Toxteth Park
Class: RG13; Piece: 3428; Folio: 108; Page: 24

I have also found that William Kelly and Margaret Ellen Kelly's daughter died in the workhouse too aged 23 - how sad.

KELLY Eleanor Clara aged 23 years Spinster Workhouse Toxteth Park 5 May 1903

I wonder if Ellen Pender had children before she married my William?

Thank you DS !

V x

I wonder if Ellen Pender had children before she married my William?

From 1881!
PENDER, Ellen - Boarder - Widow - 38 - 1843 - Charwoman - Liverpool.
PENDER, Agnes - Boarder - u/m - 17 - 1864 - Domestic Servant - Liverpool.
Address: 124 Wolfe St, Toxteth Park.
Piece: 3638 - Folio: 50 - Page: 28.

From 1871!
PENDER, Ellen - Head - Married - 28 - 1843 - Charwoman - Preston, Lancashire
PENDER, Agnes - Dtr - 7 - 1864 - Liverpool.
Address: 147 Wolfe Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool.
Piece: 3799 - Folio: 33 - Page: 59.

Note: Transcribed as Pinder in 1871. Correction submitted.

An Agnes Pender married Anton Christiansen in Q3 1888 St Peters, Liverpool 8b 171.

Unfortunately there is a large gap in the St Peter's records online so not able to give you any details of the marriage.

Not sure about this...

Wrong info so removed!

Thank you DS and Mary!

Can you see a husband for Ellen at all?

Wow!! DS you beat me to it!!


I wonder if there is a christening for Anges Pender at all?
Vx

That marriage took place in St James Church, Toxteth Park
10 March, 1862
Peter Kelway Pender Full age Bachelor Mariner 14 Luton Street
Father Peter Pender Mariner
Ellen Houlding Full age Spinster 100 Park Street
Father John Houlding Police
Both signed their names as did the witnesses George Moon and Mary Griffiths

BUT
Baptism of Agnes Pender b 1 March 1864 baptised 8 April at St Patrick
parents Gulielme and Helene Pender (nee McGrath)
Godmother Anna McGrath

William J Pender married Ellen McGrath 1862 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended

9 February, 1862 St Anne
William Joseph Pender Tamworth Street, father Thomas Pender, Tamworth Street Witnes James Walsh, Paddington
Ellen McGrath Dinaben? Street father James McGrath, same address, Witness Catherine Hague, Merley Van Street

Heck, not much information given and writing bad also.

Good find MaryA.
The marriage link between the couple is missing on both Findmypast and FreeBMD. Corrections submitted to both. The William Pender entry has Page 601 instead of 606.

I've had a couple of glasses while watching this concert, so will now take a bow for that.

Hic!

Ellen McGrath Dinaben? Street

That would be DINORBEN STREET. RG09 - Piece: 2733 - Folio: 105 - Page: 1.