Help Please Woolcott baptism

[Tina]

Hi Peeps
Please can you look in Anx for the baptism in Lpool Catholic records of Helena Woolcott
at St Philip Neri 27.11.1869 father Gulielmi & mother Helena.
There is wording at the very bottom of the baptism, my friend asked me to translate,apart from a name, I don't know what it all means.
Thanking you in advance.
Cheers

[Hilary]

I'm struggling!

Newar the beginning is something that looks like

absque caeremdensi the first word translates as without or except - the second word as I have read it doesn't exsist.

Could this mean the child was baptised privately?

At the bottom it seems to say

ceremonae postea suppletae sunt a me Thomas Carroll oniss apostico die 13 Decembre

After a bit of googling I think it means ceremony afterwards completed by me Thomas Carrroll priest on 13 December

I have never done any Latin neither am I an expert at Catholic registers as I have no Catholics so far in the family. This is just my suggestion.

The only other thing I could suggest is to ask a local Catholic Priest on their take on the entry.

[MaryA]

There might be somebody who knows some Latin but doesn't have Ancestry access so thought I would post it and see.

[Katie]

A (ab)-from, by
Sunt- they are
Post partum-after birth
Post-after
Posterus-following

I think Hilary is right with regaard to Ceremony. Its not in my Latin list but I have seen it in the baptism register. Suppletae. Could that stand for Supplied? Thats not in my list either.

[jan44]

I have had a look at this and been on various translation sites.

Absque Caeremoniae meaning Without Ceremony.

I think that the child was perhaps baptised later by Thomas Carroll on 13th December.

There is something to do with a mistake and the higher authorities were informed.

That is my take on it anyway, I haven't a clue about Latin.

Jan

[MaryA]

Suppletae - makes me think of supplementary? as in maybe there was a private baptism and now this has been recorded supplementary to it.

[Tina]

The dates for the baptisms are all over the place, there are only 6 of them at the church.
It could mean without ceremony? which was done later?
Perhaps the child was registered but too sick to be baptised?
Just a thought.
Tina

[MaryA]

I've sent an email to somebody I know who knows quite a bit of Latin, just hope she picks up her emails regularly.

[Tina]

Tks Mary

[marchbird]

I think maybe the child was thought to be very sick and was just baptised without a full baptism service. When she recovered, the priest carried out a full baptism.

Caerimoniae - sacred service
postea - afterwards
suppletae sunt - was completed or made good
a me - by me

Marchbird

[Tina]

Thanks Marchbird, I was thinking along the same lines but you have clinched it for me.
Well done
Cheers

[MaryA]

Friend replied with the following quite informative reply:

As far as I can make out, I believe the entry should read:

1) The transcribed entry in the Baptism register:
Anno 1869, mensis Octobius nata et anno 1869 die 27. mensis Novemb bapitzata est
Absque caerimoniis Hellena Woolcott filia Gulielemi et
Helenae Woolcott (olim Scannell) conjugum:
a me Thomas Duaene (?) Miss: Coad:
Patrinus fuit: Jacobus Bucke Matrina fuit Helena Ellard
Caerimoniae portea suppletae sunt a me, Thomas Carroll, [Anifs: Afont co : ?]
Die 13 Decemb.


2) The English version reads: (though there are still some queries as I can't make out the letters)

No.176: Woolcott
In the Year: 1869, Day: 12, Month: October, was born and in the year 1869,
day 27th, Month November, was baptised:
Without ceremonies: Helen Woolcott, Daughter of
William and Helen Woolcott (formerly Scannell) spouse:
by me: Thomas Duaene (Miss = of the Mission; Coad ?)
Godfather is to be: James Bucke: Godmother is to be: Helen Ellard
Ceremonies hereafter were made good by Me, Thomas Carroll, (Onifs: Afont co: this could be priest as someone has suggested: I think it could be secretary hand for onus/oneris meaning burdon, load, force, effect, charged = possibly as in charged with performing this duty). There are various Latin words for priest: sacerdos, flamen, pontifedx = high priest, antistes. The word here could be apostle)
Day: 13 December


3) Latin Words
Caerimoniae = religious rituals, ceremonies
missa = mass
postea = hereafter
suppletae - (supplere) = to fill up, make good, made up to the full complement
sunt - are/were
suppletae sunt = passive tense in use here; suppletae is feminine plural ending referring to the feminine plural ending of Caerimoniae.


4) Misc:
a) I see from the 1871 Census that Helen Ellard is the Aunt of Helen Woolcott
b) Could Thomas Duaene (?) be a "locum" priest and Thomas Carroll the actual priest who rectified any admin irregularities?
c) People need to understand that Latin nouns, adjectives, verbs all decline/conjugate and their endings change with the declension, gender and whether singular or plural. Also this is 19th century Latin and they are using a "z" in the Latin word bapitzata which is not Latin as written in the days of Ancient Rome.

[Tina]

Wow Mary, thank you so very much for fantastic information.
Much appreciated.

[MaryA]

I've passed on your thanks to my friend.