Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

With grateful thanks to members Alison and Dickiesam I now have William George Henderson's Father and Grandfather but where oh where is William George between his birth (1871/73) and his Marriage in 1899. I have searched long and hard through all the Lancashire Census' to no avail. It may well be that George the Dad didn't marry W.G.s mother, it may also be the case that as George Henderson was a Mariner he was away at sea for months on end, but baby William G. Henderson must have been looked after by someone and so the search goes on.

Thanks everyone.


MickyBlue

Mickyblue wrote: It may well be that George the Dad didn't marry W.G.s mother,

Have you considered that if they were not married, then William may have had a different surname.

The one thing we do know for sure is that William George's surname is Henderson. He is the father of my mother-in-law and she and all her siblings are Hendersons.

Many regards

MickyBlue

Hi all,

A thought....given that George Henderson was from Scotland, perhaps the children were brought up there?

My ggg grandfather, his wife and most of his children were born in Scotland but the family spent a few years in Liverpool (he was a mariner) and two of the children were born in Liverpool - but for most of the censuses they were all up in Scotland. Perhaps the same thing happened with the Hendersons - perhaps they only spent a few years in Liverpool, during which time WG was born, but mainly lived in Scotland. George may even have married in Scotland - which is why there's no obvious marriage for him in England. It would also tie in with WG's occupation being a Joiner - his father's siblings and father were also Joiners so he could have learned the trade from them.

Alison

Mickyblue wrote:The one thing we do know for sure is that William George's surname is Henderson.

The only way to be sure of that is from his birth certificate, please share the details from it ie his mother's maiden name.

Alison C wrote:Hi all,

A thought....given that George Henderson was from Scotland, perhaps the children were brought up there?

My ggg grandfather, his wife and most of his children were born in Scotland but the family spent a few years in Liverpool (he was a mariner) and two of the children were born in Liverpool - but for most of the censuses they were all up in Scotland. Perhaps the same thing happened with the Hendersons - perhaps they only spent a few years in Liverpool, during which time WG was born, but mainly lived in Scotland. George may even have married in Scotland - which is why there's no obvious marriage for him in England. It would also tie in with WG's occupation being a Joiner - his father's siblings and father were also Joiners so he could have learned the trade from them.

Alison

Yes that is a possibility that we have tried to follow up on, no joy so far. What we do know is that W.G. met his wife in Liverpool. Elizabeth Conning was born in 1873, we have her in the 1881 census aged 8, living in Cockerall Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool, and then in the '91 census and then 1899 her marriage to William George, and that they continued to live in Liverpool for the rest of their lives we know for certain. But his mother's name and where he lived between his birth and his marriage we do not yet know. Just two more pieces of our jigsaw to find and put in. It's intriguing to say the least.
Been very greatful for your help though.

Regards MickyBlue

MaryA wrote:

Mickyblue wrote:The one thing we do know for sure is that William George's surname is Henderson.

The only way to be sure of that is from his birth certificate, please share the details from it ie his mother's maiden name.

Hello
If only we knew his mother's name!! Then I would send for a birth certificate. This is our brick wall, we know nothing of his mother, where he was born or where he lived between his birth and his marriage. Sadly we didn't ask enough questions of the people who would have known the answers when they were alive. The only certificate we have is his marriage certificate and his surname is very definately Henderson on that.

I shall keep looking, it's good to have so much help.

Regards MickyBlue

My point is that he may have been brought up as Henderson, or even taken the name of a stepfather, but he may not have been born a Henderson, if the parents were not married at that time.

Hi

I would take a punt and get Florence Marys birth cert it may hold all the answers you are looking for..also i would contact the Mersey Seamans Orphan Instituation..

http://www.rlsoi-uk.org/RLSOI/Archives.html

I think we have all run out of ideas, there seems to be no trace of Florence in 1871, although she could use Mary..and William wasnt born till after this census so 1891 is the next stop to trace him and again he could use the name George..he would have to be in the Kirkdale/Walton area c 1890s to meet Elizabeth..so would concentrate looking in those areas in 1891, wondered why Mrs Henderson was listed as head of the house in 1900 Directory 20 Sandon Road and not William..

Hi,

Thanks for the link to the Seaman's orphanage. I have already contacted them. They confirm that a George Henderson was an orphan in the Institute and also that his older bro. John was supported by the Orphanage as an outsider. I have concluded that I must take a trip to Liverpool and go to the Records Office and the Seaman's Office and trawl through their files. It is a conundrum, but not knowing the name of William George's mother or the circumstances of his birth make this case doubly difficult.

Thanks for all the help.

Regards MickyBlue

colette wrote:Hi

I would take a punt and get Florence Marys birth cert it may hold all the answers you are looking for..also i would contact the Mersey Seamans Orphan Instituation..

http://www.rlsoi-uk.org/RLSOI/Archives.html

I think we have all run out of ideas, there seems to be no trace of Florence in 1871, although she could use Mary..and William wasnt born till after this census so 1891 is the next stop to trace him and again he could use the name George..he would have to be in the Kirkdale/Walton area c 1890s to meet Elizabeth..so would concentrate looking in those areas in 1891, wondered why Mrs Henderson was listed as head of the house in 1900 Directory 20 Sandon Road and not William..

P.S. Just re-read your reply, wondering which 1900 directory lists Mrs Henderson as head?

Hiya

I am so sorry but better news as it wasn't 1900 it was 1894, i had looked at both directories you see and got muddled up..give you wrong year,,

what was Elizabeths address on the marriage cert..as i was thinking maybe they were living together before the marriage..if not this could be his mother......

I checked the 1891 census to see who was at 20 Sandon Road but there were no Hendersons..


xx

Hello,

There is a Martha Henderson living at 20 Sandon Road in the 1900 Gore's directory (http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/d.asp)

The 1901 census ( http://www.1901censusonline.com/results ... son_searchshows a Martha Henderson age 64, Nurse, living in Walton.......could she be WG's mother? (Her birth place is given as "Derby Flash")

This looks like her in the 1881 census on FamilySearch:
339 Fountains Rd, Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
Martha Henderson, Head, age 42, Widow, Nurse, b Flash, Staffordshire,
John T Henderson, Son, age 23, Single, Engineer, b Bootle
Joseph Henderson, Son, age 7, b Seacombe, Cheshire
James Henderson, Son, age 13, b Liverpool
Martha Proctor, Mother, age 87, Widow, b Buxton Derbyshire.

There is a marriage for George Henderson to Martha Proctor in Birkenhead in Q1 1866.

In the 1871 census there look to be 2 other children: Jessie b 1863 and......George b 1870. . It also shows George Snr was born in 1831.

So where were Jessie and little George in 1881? FreeBMD has a death of a Jessie Henderson in West Derby in Q1 1878 (8b, p212)....but no sign of George

Still...the Sandon Road address in 1900 is a definite connection to our WG so this does look like a possibility.

Alison x

This is very interesting. Unfortunately the link to Gore's directory won't open for me, but it has to be a link to W.G. and his mother .

As to Martha Proctor, the George Henderson that she married was born on board ship in the Bay of Biscay, as was his father James. All their children were born in Wallasey. Their daughter Jessie Ann married Edward Malley in 1882. by the 1901 census three of her brothers are living with her in Liverpool. ( She has been to America and back by then.)

I have twice considered this family to be William George's family and can't think why but for some reason I dismissed them. I will have to reconsider them.. again!!

I have looked back at my notes and I now know why I dismissed the Martha Proctor link. I have the details of their children from the LDS site and they list George as born in 1866 and James born in 1870, whereas the Family search site you have extracted puts James as a thirteen year old in 1881 and George b. in 1870 which would be right if he is W.G.
Still the mystery of where William George is in 1881 is baffeling.
One thing we can say with some certainty now is that his Mother's name was Martha. That is such a breakthrough.

Thank you.

Hiya

In 1901 Martha is visiting someone whos just had a baby at Cedar Road Walton as shes a nurse

1901 Garden Lane Walton
John Henderson aged 43 wood Plainer b Bootle
Wife Mary age 25 b Scotland

1901 son James 56 Emery Street Walton b Seacombe
Wife Bertha A age 34
Dau Bertha age 2
Dau May A age 10 mths

1901 John W Henderson (joseph) 54 Emery St next door to James occupation Joiner wife Harriet

Abt 1910ish Beaver Grove Walton
John Henderson & wife Francis not sure if she was a Mary Francis but she was also born Scotland like the Mary hes with in 1901 and same birth year...

Abt 1910ish, son Joseph 76 Rice Lane Walton Joiners Labourer..married 4 sons wife Harriet

abt 1910ish, son James 15 Lochinvar St Walton he has daughters Jessie & Florence amongst others

Looks like Martha the mum died 1906


can you give us the details of Jessie & Edward Malley in 1901 having trouble finding them

xx

Hello,
Not 1901 sorry!
There is a record for Jessie Malley with her two sons, William (aged7) and George (aged3) in the 1891 Cencus RG12/2976 p50.

On the same census and at the same address, 25 York street, are her brothers John George and James Henderson.

Don't know where Edward her husband is at this time but he's not dead because Jessie is listed as 'M' and they went on to have more children.

x

Hiya

that will be right then as your George is there a Joiner aged 21 with his siblings..we know mum Martha is always out and about..we shall have to locate her.. so looks like hes the George William born March 1870 West Derby..and hes swapped his names around.

So the Florence Mary born Dec 1869 cant be right as its too close to George William's birth..unless she wasnt registered till later on and was born earlier in 1869.

If these two were the youngest kids of George & Martha i can understand Martha putting them in the Seamans orphanage as there would be nobody to take care of them ..she had to work and all the brothers did too, it depends on what year George died ..there is one Death West Derby March 1878..that might be him..Only Jessie would be left and she would be 15 ish when dad dies, maybe she had a job too as a Servant..

I would have thourght an orphange was for kids with no parents...but maybe this one was different..

Also you said Jessie had been to USA at some point..was it to do with Edwards work or could it be to visit someone maybe Florence had gone over there.


xx

HI,
More on Jessie Ann Malley. Looks like they moved to America in1886 ish. Their son Joseph was born in Liverpool in 1885 (according to LDS) then their next four children were born in Texas, '87 '94 '96 and 1903. Jessie died in 1922, Edward died in 1945.
But not all the dates talley i.e. George Malley according to the 1891 Census is three years old. On the LDS site George was born in 1879. Then again if the Jessie Malley in the '91 census is the same Jessie Malley listed on the LDS site then they must have returned to Liverpool, correction, she seemingly moved back to Liverpool temporarily, because of course her husband is not listed on the '91 census, and then gone back to America where Robert was born in 1894. Well if this is one and the same Jessie, at least her Transatlantic travel gave her a break from being pregnant!!

Yer had a look today they were living in Arkansas..must have been to do with Edwards job Coppersmith...wonder did Florence move over too..

It really bugging me that shes not on the 1871 when she was born 1869..George is home,where can she be..unless this Florence doesnt belong to this family and its just coinsidence they are there at the same time.

Martha's mum is visiting Charlotte her daughter in Preston and Martha's dad Joseph is working in Yorkshire as a Stone Mason aged 76 bless him, hes lodging so little Florence isnt with them.

hopefuly the Seamans Orphanage will help if you see the records..