Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Anyone help with my
James Gabriel was born Liverpool 1871 father Samuel & Margaret Hickson Gabriel

I`m unable to find his birth record but that`s not my main aim James can be found via 1881 & 1891 census in Everton can`t be found after this dated BMD ect 1901/11 census England / Ireland

I have found a James Gabriel that could be him that leaves Liverpool Queenstown for Boston in 1894 but can`t find any James Gabriel born 1870/71 via 1910/20/30 us census that could match
Not to be confused by his cousin (James as he is known in the US) that can be found Millington James Gabriel born 1870 wife Clara to whom emigrates to Boston in 1908
Any help would be appreciated

Hi,
James' parents are on their own in the 1871 census:

GABRIEL, Samuel - Head - 29 - 1842 - Engine driver - Liverpool.
GABRIEL, Margaret - Wife - 30 - 1841 - Liverpool.
Address: 130 Athol Street, Liverpool, Lancashire.
RG10 - Piece:3762 - Folio: 119 - Page:42

So it would appear that James was born after the census was taken on the 2nd of April, but his birth was not registered. It has been estimated that up to 15% of births up to the early 1870s were not registered, This was primarily because the onus was on the Registrar's office to 'find' and record births for which he was paid by 'the each'. Later it became the parents' responsibility to register a birth within a given time frame or face possible penalties.

I believe the James Gabriel in the Outgoing Passenger Lists was in fact Irish because he is recorded in the column headed 'Irish' in blue ink. FamilySearch has this US birth where the father is James Gabriel bn Ireland: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NWF7-42B

There is also a US marriage of a James Gabriel bn Ireland 1871:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/rec ... A1870-1872~

Have you tried for a baptism in the Ancestry Liverpool Parish collection?

DS

Hi D.S
He's 20(engineers app) in 1891 with his folks, their only child, ditto 1881.
I was hoping to find him in census with a sibling perhaps.
Margaret Hickson Gabriel died in 4th qtr 1891 age as 40, perhaps an error
W Dby rego.
Someone in Anx has put a correction in for the surname spelling in 1871.
Would it be worth contacting them?
James could be at sea?

Tina

Hi Tina,
Re:

Someone in Anx has put a correction in for the surname spelling in 1871.
Would it be worth contacting them? James could be at sea?

The surname on the census summary page in 1871 is Gabrel, probably an enumerator error. I corrected it in my post because it was obvious who the couple were. I doubt if Anx would accept a correction. I know from experience that Findmypast wouldn't on the grounds that it is clearly Gabrel on the summary page. But it would be worth finding out who put in the correction in case it isn't Gabba.

I haven't found James in the MN or military service records but did find 2 military deaths...
1) GABRIEL, James - Corps: Scottish Rifles - 1917.
Rank: Private; Service No: 29136;
Date of Death: 20/05/1917
Regiment/Service: Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 5th/6th Bn.
Panel Reference Bay 6.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

2) GABRIEL, J - South Africa - Corps: 1 Coldstream Guards - 1899-1902.

DS

Thanks DS & Tina

James parents die young Samuel Gabriel 1894 & Margaret Hickson Gabriel 1891

Correct census for this family as you have stated 1871/81 & 91

I have not corrected any possible errors via findmypast etc!

Could he be at Sea very unlikely

I have searched baptism record via Ancestry for a birth to no avail looks like I drawn a black to the where a bouts of my James Gabriel vary mysterious

He could have left the England but for where ??????????
or could he have died & it not recorded?
Thanks for you help

Gabba

Have you checked who is in the grave with his parents?

Margaret Hickson Gabriel buried 13 December 1891 St Michael's, Garston. 25 Byrom Street, Garston. Age 40 years.

Sorry I just assumed "parents" but haven't found an entry for Samuel. IF it was a private grave as opposed to a general one, then perhaps there are more family members in there. Might be worth an enquiry to Allerton Lodge. Use the Contact details for Liverpool Direct http://liverpool.gov.uk/births-marriage ... remations/

One thing you can be certain of is that if he died - in Britain at least - it would have been registered, might not be correctly registered, you never know just what has happened to names when somebody has taken a guess at spellings, but it will have been registered somehow.

You should make contact with whoever submitted the error corrections, and have you discounted the military deaths?

Morning All
I contacted the person in Anx, will keep you posted.
There's a James aged 60 ship worker with wife Gladys arriving in Lpool
24.8.1931 aboard the Baltic.
Address given as 110 Stanley Rd Kirkdale.
Interesting, in 1911 Directory a Mrs Mary Gabriel lived at this address!
Maybe it's the cousin James with a different wife??

Hi Tina

Very interesting that could / is my James Gabriel with wife Gladys

110 Stanley Road Kirkdale is to where his Aunt & Uncle lived Samuel & Mary Gabriel

& it can`t be his cousin Millington (James) Gabriel with a new wife because I no all about him he visits the same address via Boston on the Britannic on the 10th Oct 1931

Any chance you could send me that document?

Best Regards & thanks again Tina
Gabba!!!!

Passenger List Record
Personal Information

Name

James Gabriel

Departure Date

7 Oct 1931

Departure Port Liverpool


Passenger Destination Boston, USA

Birth Date

1870 (calculated from age)

Birth Country

Age 61

Marital Status M

********** Male

Occupation Ship Worker

UK Address

Last Residence Country

Intended Residence Country

Passenger Recorded on

Page 8 of 29

Voyage Information

Ship Name

Britannic

Official Number
162316
Master's Name F F Summers

Shipping Line
White Star

Where Bound
New York, Usa

Square Feet
12781
Registered Tonnage
26943
Passengers on Voyage
596

Length of Voyage (in days)
14

Genes Reu wont let you save the image so its the best i can do

Hi Gabba think this might be him..

1910

Residence:

Quincy Ward 1, Norfolk, Massachusetts

James Gaberil b England age 30
Clara b Eng age 41
Children

Alice M b Eng age 18
Millington J b Eng age17
Ellen b Eng age 14
Rose A b Eng age 12
George b Eng age 9
Clara b Eng age 7
Margaret b Eng age 2
Charles J b Eng age 3 months

Emigrated 1908

xx

Hi Collete
Thanks but
I have this info relating to Millington James Gabriel b1870 Liverpool (emigrated to USA 1908 & becomes known as JAMES M Gabriel) & his wife Clara visiting in 1931 Clara

I`m tiring to find info on his cousin James Gabriel born Liverpool 1871 & according to Tina also visits the same address been 110 Stanley Road Kirkdale Liverpool also in Aug 1931

Regards

Gabba

Hiya

Ok will get back on it so thats Millington...his cous..we need James..



xxxx

Hi Gabba
I've saved a copy, couldn't enlarge it sorry.
It was distorted.
If you change your screen size to 200% you will see it easier.
He was a US citizen.

Hi Tina

Thanks for the document but it is very difficult to make out! You original said it was James Gabriel & wife Gladys can you confirm that ?

Gabba

MaryA wrote:Have you checked who is in the grave with his parents?
.........................
and have you discounted the military deaths?

I don't think I can make the image any clearer, but it says Clara not Gladys.


Liverpool to Boston

Is this any clearer?
DS

Hi

It looks like Clara to me H WIFE house wife ..

It IS Clara, it can be read more clearly on the Ancestry site, also as confirmed by the return journey.

Sorry folks for all the confusion.
Yes, it's not Gladys, lawd knows where I got that from.
Just ignore me!!