Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

The first name of the father of the groom on the RC parish marriage record below looks to me like Centi. Does anyone else agree, and does anyone know what the English equivalent might be?

http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/g41 ... 0755-2.jpg

Looks like Centi to me. Haven't come across that before. Why don't you look for the groom on a census to see what his father is recorded as.

Can find it only as a prefix for "hundred", as in centimetre etc. The handwriting is clear enough, so perhaps it is unique.
D

Where did the marriage take place? Maybe we could work back from that?

Hi Gang

worked part of it out

the marriage took place in Widnes so under Prescott..John Dowd lived in Lugsdale Road right by Elizabeth Street..in 1891 John & Mary live in Margaret Street Widnes, John Born Ireland c1853 Mary also born Ireland c1866.

Two kiddies in 1891 Margaret age 6 & Peter age 2 maybe it stands for Peter...



xxx

Sozzzzzzzzzzzz just realised Marys dad was a Peter.


xx

How about Kenneth or Kevin?

I suspect the John Dowd in the marriage is the brother of my great grandfather William Dowd. I cannot find William Dowd in any census before 1891, he married Bridget/Mary Kelly in the 4th quarter 1881 in the Wolstanton registration district, so he might have arrived from Ireland after the April 1881 census. Similarly I cannot find John Dowd before the 1891 census, apart from his marriage, which was at St Marie in Widnes. The reasons for my suspicion that they are brothers (or perhaps cousins?) is some common names on their respective children’s parish baptism records, and because in the 1911 census they both say they were born in Frenchpark Ireland.

Below are their 1891 census details.

1891 census
William Dowd, Head, Married, 34, Chemical Labourer, Ireland
Mary Dowd, Wife, Married, 34, Ireland
William Dowd, Son, 9, Staffordshire Tunstall
Maggie Dowd, Daughter, 6, Staffordshire Tunstall
Annie Dowd, Daughter, 5, Lancashire Widnes
John Dowd, Son, 3, Lancashire Widnes
6 Ann Street East Widnes

1891 census
John Dowd, Head, Married, 38, Alkali Labourer, Ireland [age should be 28 judging by later censuses]
Mary Dowd, Wife, Married, 25, Ireland
Margaret Dowd, Daughter, 6, Scholar, Lancashire Widnes
Peter Dowd, Son, 2, Lancashire Widnes
44 Margaret Street, Widnes

I was hoping to determine the name of the groom’s father from the parish marriage record (thus saving ~£9 by not buying a marriage certificate!) so that I could compare it to the name Of William Dowd’s father when I eventually get round to spending ~£9 on his marriage certificate (before I then start searching for their origin in Ireland!).

Hello,

I think Centi might actually be Lenti.

Here's a baptism for Peter Dowd from FamilySearch:
PETER DOUD Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
07 SEP 1865 0167, Frenchpark, Roscommon, Ireland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: LENTY DOUD Family
Mother: BRIDGET CONNOLLY

PS...that is the only baptism on FamilySearch with Lenty as the father...so possibly a brother for William and John ?

Good find, Alison C, thanks for that. Hopefully when I get William's marriage certificate the name might match up. Thanks to everyone else as well.

Hi

in 1881 at 34 Lugsdale Road Widnes there was a lodger named Thomas Dowd born c1855 Ireland..

In 1883 John Dowd gives his address as 38 Lusgdale Road two doors away..could be a possibility he is also connected OR the DOWD surname was very common..

I definatly agree that Lenty could be the fathers name..that baptism for Peter seems to be the only document outhere with Genty on..its frustrating..
xx

I have now obtained the marriage certificate of my great grandfather William Dowd, but more of that in a moment.

Prior to this I had continued researching Dowds in Widnes and found the marriage in 1901 of a Catherine Dowd who seemed very likely to be a relative of the above William because one of his daughters was a witness.

http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/g41 ... 071901.jpg

This marriage of Catherine showed her father’s name to be James Dowd and the only combination of these two names led to a family living at 28 Idris Street in Liverpool in the 1881 census (Piece 3602, Folio 119, Page 7). A search for Catholic baptisms in Liverpool for this James and his wife (Mary, from the 1881 census) as parents revealed five children, and crucially the mother’s maiden name, Maher, allowing a search for the marriage of James and Mary. As you will see below

http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/g41 ... 041873.jpg

the father of James had a very interesting first name, Santy, at least that is what Ancestry has transcribed it as.

(As an aside, at this point, those interested in unusual transcriptions of surnames might like this one. I had found the above Catherine living in Widnes in the 1901 census (Piece 3514, Folio 6, Page 3) just before she married, but I could not find her, or her family, in the 1891 census. As a last resort I decided to look at who was living at 28 Idris Street in that census (Piece 2904, Folio 119, Page 7), and there she was, with the surname Dorood! (according to Findmypast) However she was living with an uncle and aunt, with no sign of her parents, just one brother, the other siblings, I believe, having died.)

Anyway, back to the marriage certificate of my great grandfather William Dowd, shown below.

http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/g41 ... 101881.jpg

As you will see, his father’s first name was Seuty. Based on this it seems likely that John, James and Peter (found by Alison C on FamilySearch) were brothers of William, but as to the correct spelling of their father’s first name I have a wide choice! Interestingly, William has signed his own name on his marriage certificate and has spelt his surname as Doud, the same spelling as shown for the above Peter on FamilySearch.

Finally, the marriage certificate gave me the name of the father of William’s wife, Moses Kelly. Annoyingly, this was a bit of a blow, as I thought I had already found the correct Bridget Kelly, with Thomas as her father’s name, living in the local area, and I had tracked her parents and siblings through the subsequent censuses! Back to the searching, but no suitable Moses Kelly in the censuses so far.

What an interesting search, all from one very peculiar christian name.

I'm sure you will soon get a lead on the Kellys, it's all good fun isn't it to get led down the wrong road before eventually finding the correct one.

Good luck, you know where we are if you need anything.

With such an unusual first name for William Dowd’s father it occurred to me that a search of Griffith’s Valuation might be worthwhile. There was no luck using the exact spelling Seuty Dowd, but when I searched Dowd (with “include similar names” ticked) in Frenchpark Roscommon I found Sinty Dowde, he seems a likely candidate, but yet another spelling. See the link below.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith- ... ubmit.y=15

Looking at the map this site provides of the “plot” in the valuation, and comparing it to the present day satellite view on Google, it is possible to see that most of the land indicated by the valuation is still clearly visible outlined by hedgerows!

Moses Kelly is a bit more problematic in Griffith’s Valuation as examination of the eight hits still results in six individuals, and I don’t know yet which part of Ireland he was from.

Previous contributors to this post may be interested to know that I believe that I have finally discovered the correct first name of my great great grandfather discussed above (the variously named Centi, Lenty, Santy, Seuty or Sinty Dowd), thanks to the Irish RC parish registers that have recently become available on the National Library of Ireland website, and what I surprising name it is!

Using the probability that the wife of “Centi, Lenty, Santy, Seuty, Sinty” was Bridget Connolly (from the Familysearch record found by Alison C), I had searched on RootsIreland (some time ago when free searching was still available) to find the parish for the baptisms of their sons. I was able to find likely ones for William and James in the parish of Tibohine-Fairymount using just the surname Dowd and the full mother name of Bridget Connolly. (The parish of Tibohine-Fairymount is adjacent to Frenchpark where the 1911 census shows two of the brothers to have been born.)

Last week when the Irish RC parish registers became available I looked for the baptisms of William and James in the Tibohine-Fairymount register, and sure enough there they were, but the father’s name was very difficult to interpret, although it clearly began with the letter H. In the hope that the couple would have had other children baptised in the same parish, I then started to work my way through the years before, between and after the dates for the two children I had already found. I’m pleased to say a found a few (and I am still looking), and these were much clearer, with one completely legible, showing that my great great grandfather’s first name was Hyacinth!

I initially considered that perhaps Hyacinth was a “latinised” version of an English name (as this is how first names appear in RC parish registers), so I looked on the internet for some clue, but found nothing. Like me, you may have thought that Hyacinth was a woman’s name, but according to Wikipedia, which I then looked at for references to Hyacinth, it can also be a man’s name. Wikipedia also gave a list of men whose first name was Hyacinth, and on this list was one name which has convinced me that I have found the correct baptisms. According to Wikipedia there was a Polish saint called Hyacinth,

Saint Hyacinth, O.P., (Polish: Święty Jacek or Jacek Odrowąż) (b. ca. 1185 in Kamień Śląski (Ger. Groß Stein) near Opole (Ger. Oppeln), Upper Silesia – d. 15 August 1257, in Kraków, Poland of natural causes) was educated in Paris and Bologna. A Doctor of Sacred Studies and a secular priest, he worked to reform women's monasteries in his native Poland.

The reason why I am confident I have the correct baptisms? Well, last year I was speaking to an older cousin of mine who told me that he did not know what the correct name was for “Centi, Lenty, Santy, Seuty, Sinty”, but he had been told that he was named after a Polish saint!

Now begins the search for Hyacinth Dowd’s baptism, hopefully there will not be too many other men with same name in Ireland!

What a great find! Just shows we always need to revisit our old problems, especially when new resources become available, thanks for the update, I love it!

And what a fantastic name for a Parish - Tibohine-Fairymount, only in Ireland as they say