Now I am flummoxed!

[Daisycakes]

Have found on Anc...... 1911... 2 transcripts for the same family as follows

Thomas Norbury 32 widower ( Thomas was married to my grandmothers sister)
Gladys M 10
May 5
All at 19 Grange Street West Derby

Then Thomas is on another transcript same address with his children but crossed out ...at the top of the page is the family named Blackburn.

Do you think that they were all living at that address ? I hope this makes sense. Or is it some kind of error on the enumerators part...or perhaps Anc.....

Thanks Ann

Coincidentally and really Spooky I had daughter number two in the front bedroom of that house in 1966 and at that time had not ventured into family search so had no knowledge of my grandmothers family...But I do now

[dickiesam]

Hello Anne,
My reading of it is that T Abson Blackburn was the actual listed tenant of 19 Grange Street, and the dwelling had been sub-divided with Thomas Norbury and his 2 daughters as sub-tenants, but not boarders or lodgers.

Blackburn's household form, lists only 2 rooms occupied by himself, wife and daughter, altered to read 4, presumably by the enumerator who also deleted the Norbury family.

Thomas and his children occupy just 2 rooms and had to complete a seperate summary. On the Blackburn page note the enumerator's alterations bottom left where he/she has altered the number of persons in residence.

DS

[Hilary]

The address is occupied by more than 1 family. The Blackburns and the Norburys. Mr Blackburn has been confused and entered the Norburys on his form so they have been crossed out. Both families are listed as having 2 rooms.

[Daisycakes]

Thank you both.... it makes sense now...I remember it was a small 2 bed terrace with an outside loo even right up to 1969 when we moved out and up a bit... It cant have been easy for them but folk just seemed to manage in those hard times...

Thanks again Ann

[Tina]

Hi Daisycakes
In Gores/Kellys 1911 Directory head of the household was Thomas
Blackburn, paint mixer

Tina

[Daisycakes]

Thanks Tina...I hadnt looked in Kelly's Directory...it does seem my Thomas Norbury was a sub tenant...I have found on FBMD a Thomas Alfred Norbury born West Derby in 1908 who I think was Thomas's son .However he is not with his father on the 1911 census but I have found a Thomas age 2 on the 1911 and he is a nephew in the Robison/Hibbert family in Wodbine grove..and I'm wondering if this small boy could be my Thomas...Have searched for a baptism hoping this would tell me who his parents are... no joy as yet.I should say their other children where baptised Liverpool St Peters.

Father Thomas Alfred Norbury mother Ellen Sarah sometimes Ellen Sarah..I do have all the relevent info up to 1911 ..its just this small boy I need to find. If I can find him it would certainly answer many questions.

Many Thanks Ann

[Daisycakes]

Have found on Anc...... 1911... 2 transcripts for the same family as follows

Thomas Norbury 32 widower ( Thomas was married to my grandmothers sister)
Gladys M 10
May 5
All at 19 Grange Street West Derby

Then Thomas is on another transcript same address with his children but crossed out ...at the top of the page is the family named Blackburn.

Do you think that they were all living at that address ? I hope this makes sense. Or is it some kind of error on the enumerators part...or perhaps Anc.....

Thanks Ann

Coincidentally and really Spooky I had daughter number two in the front bedroom of that house in 1966 and at that time had not ventured into family search so had no knowledge of my grandmothers family...But I do now

Have just searched a bit more and found that Thomas Abson Blackburn was in fact Thomas's step brother...thats a help.

Ann

[Tina]

Hi Daisycakes
Interesting find!
Stepbrother of Thomas snr not baby Thomas yes?
Thomas A.B was baptised 28.3.1887 St Peter's to
Thomas & Jane Blackburn.

1901 census listed as Anne J.
married Thos Blackburn St Peter's 1884 as Anne J Norbury.
2 step kids in this census and their own little girl aged 7yrs Emma also Thomas aged 14

Tina

[Daisycakes]

Hi Tina...I have been doing some more digging....as follows

Albert Robinson married Margaret Hibbert a widow in 1890
Margaret Peers married Alfred Hibbert 1872 bringing several Hibbert children to the marriage.

Margaret Peers sister was Ann Jane Peers married to William Henry Norbury 1870
Ann Jane Peers widow married Thomas Blackburn bringing 4 children to the marriage including Thomas Alfred Norbury born 1879

Thomas Alfred on the 1911 census is living with his stepbrother Thomas A Blackburn

I am thinking Margaret and Ann Jane are sisters and it follows that my little Thomas 1908 is the nephew of Margaret. Or Does it??

Ann

[MaryA]

That sounds near enough to claim a nephewship.

[Daisycakes]

Thanks so much Mary just the answer I needed ....I've been on this one for so long now ..it was as a shot in the dark researching the Robinsons...

Ann