john leary

[sophia]

I am trying to find information regarding John Leary who I believe was born in Wexford about 1856. I am looking for information before 1881. His wife was Mary Ann Holland (cannot find a marriage cert. do not think they were married) but family oral history was that he took her to Ireland as she was pregnant and married there. Their son was born 1874, in Liverpool but did not appear on the census with them until 1891 when he was 17.
Any help would be appreciated.

[MaryA]

It would be helpful if the information from the censuses was given as this could provide other family information ie children, birthplaces etc. I may have found the family you believe them to be in the 1891 census, please give details from the 1881.

The Civil Registrations for Ireland are available to search on www.familysearch.org have you checked there?

Is this them in the 1891 census?
11 Court, 3 House, Drydon Street, St Martin, Liverpool
John Leary Head M 40 Fireman in Iron Foundry Ireland
Mary Ann Wife M 34 Lancashire Liverpool
John Bernard son 17 Dock Labourer " "
Elizabeth daur 12 Scholar " "
Jane daur 10 " " "
Mary Ann daur 8 " " "
Kate daur 5 " " "
Bernard son 2 " "
RG12; Piece: 2899; Folio 25; Page 12

Can I ask if you have John Bernard's birth certificate and does it confirm his mother's name of Mary Ann Holland? or is this information from Elizabeth's baptism?

[Tina]

Good findings Mary, well done and great advice.
Just to add there is a surname alteration done by a member of Anx.
It could be worth getting in touch with them?
Sorry forgot to say, 1891 census

Tina

[MaryA]

Have you done any investigation into the "Growcotts" who are godparents to Elizabeth? In 1881 they appear to be living in 3 Currie Street, St Martin, Liverpool.
Edward Grocott Head M 50 Cement Packer Tunstall, Staffs
Ellen Wife M 50 Dressmaker Ireland
Edward son 14 Scholar Liverpool
RG11; Piece: 3595; Folio: 143; Page: 18

In 1871 they are at 3 in 4 Court, Currie Street, St Martin, Liverpool
Edward Grocott Head M 45 Earthenware Packer Tunstall, Staffordshire
Ellen Wife M 39 Dressmaker ?? Colling, Cork
Edward J son 4 Liverpool, Lancashire
Jane Holland Niece 15 " "
RG10 piece 3758 folio 13 page 20

[Tina]

Quick question, little Bernard that Mary found in 1891 census, could he be in the Royal Navy as a stoker 22 born Lpool in the census 20 yrs after 1891?
Tks
Tina

[MaryA]

I am hoping you have the birth certificate for John but if you don't it would be adviseable to get it to ensure his mother's maiden name, I am assuming this would be the correct entry however, when applying I would ensure that you specify that the father's name is John.

Bernard John Leary Q2 1874 Liverpool 8b 23. Not finding a baptism for him.

[sophia]

Thank you for all your quick responses I cannot believe all the help so soon.

The family have been researching for about ten years. Here is the information we have.
Bernard is on the Census twice for 1891 with his granmother Elizabeth Duffy in Adlington St. and in Dryden St with his parent's. I believe this is his grandmother as Elizabeth Duffy is on the Baptismal Cert. for some of the Children.
( Family folklore is that Mary Ann was pregnant and they got married in Ireland she was due to have the baby when they made the journey to Liverpool and Bernard was born in Liverpool, There is also some confusion as to wether Mary Ann Holland was born in Liverpool, we think she was pregnant young and the grandmother reared himl)
Mary Ann Holland is correct as her maiden name as that is on the birth cert. We also have extensive research on a William Holland who married in 1873 and John Leary and Mary Ann Holland are the witness's at their wedding.

[sophia]

I forgot to mention on the 1881 census the family are living at 30 Bevington Hill and John's date of birth is stated as 1856 but their son Bernard is not with them.
Also at 32 Bevington Hill is another John Leary born 1861 I believe this is his cousin and this is where the Grocott's come into the picture, as they seem to be on a couple of the baptismal Cert.

Jane Holland on one of the children's baptismal cert. is William Holland's daughter.

[Blue70]

Hi Sophia,

Are your Holland people from an English or an Irish background? My Holland people have Irish roots here's my website:-

http://hollandfamilyhistory.weebly.com/


Blue

[Tina]

With regard to the question I asked about little Bernard 20yrs later in census, Sophia pm'd to say, Yes that's him.

Tina

[MaryA]

Thank you for the update Tina, it's better to have all information in the post so duplications aren't made.

I think Sophia needs to check www.familysearch.org as advised above for a civil registration for the marriage. The civil registration indexes are listed on there, however, the search would need to be done in the "old style" since they aren't matched up to spouses on the same page as we have become accustomed to with the English ones.

In other words, for each entry you find with the correct name you need to note the date (including quarter) and references, then if you find the other name with matching details you will know you have a match.

[sophia]

Thank you for your message regarding checking for a marriage for John Leary, I have found a match, with the vol. and page. for both of them. How do you go about getting a copy form the Irish Records.

Sophia

[dickiesam]

Thank you for your message regarding checking for a marriage for John Leary, I have found a match, with the vol. and page. for both of them. How do you go about getting a copy form the Irish Records.

Sophia

Hi Sophia,
You can purchase a photocopy of the marriage entry in the Irish Register online. It is exactly the same as a certified copy and is ideal for family genealogy.

The cost of a photocopy is 6 Euro [abt £4.50] including post, almost half the cost of the certified 'legal' copy.

The Irish GRO is online here: http://www.groireland.ie/
When you complete the order form make sure you specify the photocopy option.

DS

[sophia]

THANK YOU FELLOW MEMBERS.

I have found a match for John Leary's Marriage Cert. and in the process of ordering a copy. I cannot believe I have found this in a matter of days with your help, afters years of frustration. Now I can finally find out who their parent's are and go on from there. I feel like I have won the lottery.

Once again Thank You for all your help and direction.

Sophia,

[sophia]

Hi Dickiesam,

You gave me the details to order a copy of a marriage cert, but I seem to be having difficulties with the site. Can you tell me the web page to order a marriage cert. for 1874.

Thank You
Sophia

[dickiesam]

Hi Dickiesam,
You gave me the details to order a copy of a marriage cert, but I seem to be having difficulties with the site. Can you tell me the web page to order a marriage cert. for 1874.
Thank You
Sophia

Hi Sophia,
Sorry there seems to be something wrong with the GRO's main page. It isn't working as it should.
Try this link: http://www.groireland.ie/fees.htm

From there you should be able to download and print the cert application form. Unfortunately you cannot, as yet, pay online. So the completed form should be either faxed or posted to the GRO. Note the fax number from the UK must have the country prefix 00353, so the actual number is 00353-90-6632999.

If you are in a hurry or don't have a fax utility on your computer, you can order a cert from the HSE [Health Service Executive] and pay online with a credit card. The cert will be a 'proper' cert and not a photocopy. The cost is 11 Euro, about £9.50, including postage. See here: http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_S ... _ie/costs/
I find this site fiddly to use and there's nowhere to enter the Volume or Page #s. They search from the date you provide, and the search fee is included in the above cost.

DS

[sophia]

Hi Blue,

Sorry just noticed I had not replied to your question. My holland family do come from Ireland my sister reckons it is from Cavan. When I find out more information regarding Mary Ann from the marriage cer. then I can link it up with all the Mary Ann Holland' information I have amassed over the years. Possible her father might be related, but at the moment I have no firm information regarding her life before John Leary. If this cert. is the right one I can check it out with your tree,

Sophia

[Blue70]

Hi Sophia

I only have it from a distant relation that my Hollands were from County Cork I still haven't proved it by finding their records in Ireland so if you see any connection now or in the future let me know. I also have all the Liverpool RC burial indexes for the surname Holland if you need a look up.

http://hollandfamilyhistory.weebly.com/


Regards,

Blue

[sophia]

Thank you Dickiesam

I finally magaged to get throught by fax for the marriage cert. It was a difficult site to work through, but thanks for your help we managed.
One more question regarding John Leary's family. He died before the 1901 Census and his wife is a servant for Daniel Mc Cormack on the 1901 census.

I have tried to locate his children in the Kirkdale homes, but they are not there. Any idea's where to look? I have located one child in Nazareth Home in Bristol that is Mary Ann Leary but Catherine and Bernard are only children and I cannot find them on the census.

Sophia

[dickiesam]

Thank you Dickiesam

I finally magaged to get throught by fax for the marriage cert. It was a difficult site to work through, but thanks for your help we managed.
One more question regarding John Leary's family. He died before the 1901 Census and his wife is a servant for Daniel Mc Cormack on the 1901 census.

I have tried to locate his children in the Kirkdale homes, but they are not there. Any idea's where to look? I have located one child in Nazareth Home in Bristol that is Mary Ann Leary but Catherine and Bernard are only children and I cannot find them on the census.

Sophia

Hi Sophia,
Glad you were able to finally get a fax off for that cert.
With regard to John Leary's wife and children in the 1901, can you post the census page references for the two hits you have, that of his wife and the Bristol one. If you are unfamiliar with census page references, they will be something like RG13 - Piece: 3486 - Folio: 119 - Page: 11. It will enable us to go straight to those hits without searching through a list.

I recall Bernard was born John Bernard? Could this be him in 1901?
LEARY, John - School Boy - 13 - Baker Flour - Liverpool, Lancashire.
Address: St George's Industrial Schools, 137a West Derby Road, Everton.
RG13 - Piece:3486 - Folio: 119 - Page:11

DS