Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all - New member looking for help please

I am looking for any help I can get to find information on my Great Grandmother on my maternal side.
I only have a first name for her "Amy" - my grandfather was Thomas William Patterson - born 3rd May 1904. I have located him on 1911 census living with his mother Amy and Sister Vera, living at 23 Willy Street, Birkenhead.

The 1911 census states my grandfather Thomas William, to be born at 45 Cockburn Street, Liverpool, this is not correct, as I have his birth certificate, and it states what we already knew, that he was born in Toxteth Park Workhouse, Smithdown Road, Liverpool .

The 45 Cockburn Street, was address on his birth certificate which Amy states she lived/worked at when he was born, as a domestic servant, possibly to hide the fact he was born in a workhouse

In respect of Amy she states on 1911 Census, she was born in Camden Street, Birkenhead and she is a widow, born 1879 = age 32.

For Vera the 1911 census states she was born "of" Davies Street, Birkenhead, and this is correct, she was born at 7 Davies Street, Birkenhead and Amy states she lived at 3 Davies Street, Birkenhead, per Vera's birth certificate

Amy later went on to have another daughter Elsie, the information from her birth certificate, states born 10th July 1913, at 107 Rice Lane, Liverpool ( Liverpool Workhouse).

The last information I have on Amy is her death Certificate stating she died 17th November 1922, at 107 Rice lane, Liverpool Workhouse, however of 12 Mansfield Street, Liverpool, I know this is her as my Grandfather and Grandmother lived at this address when they married, in 1931.

Thanks to a fellow Ancestry member he has found a few possibilities of christening and school records, however I have no possitive information to connect them. He is also looking for a Vera Patterson, of similar age.

Final note none of the three children have a father named on their birth certificates, and Amy after stating widow on her status in 1911, the death certificate shows a spinster and slight differnce in age as 46 in 1922, making year born 1876.

Any little assistance would be appreciated no matter how small, as I have been looking for 2 years, to no avail, having searched every avenue, I know of, and having thought I had found, her was incorrect, as the Amy I found had passed away, so could not have been her.

Thank you

Hi Padjo
Welcome to the forum.
We can all understand your frustration at not finding Amy.
By the looks of things, she had a hard life yet managed to keep her children. Not easy in those days.
I'm sure the genies here will do everything they can.
Good luck
Tina

Hi Tina - thanks for the welcome to the forum

My thoughts exactly, on what a hard life she must have had.

Fingers crossed I am sure as you say the genies on here will come up with some suggestions, hints and tips for me.

Hi and welcome

Had a scout around for quite a while last night but nothing definite yet copule of possibles in census, 1 born c 1866, another 5 months old in 1881 both wrong age wise but then perhaps she wasn't so sure of her age also keep coming back to Thomas and Margaret born c 1840 in Scotland living in Birkenhead, thought Amy may be one of their daughters using a diiferent or middle name They seem to have stayed in Atherton St, but can't get anything definite so probable nothing to do with it.
I bet you have looked at all these options anyway
there are Paterson families, spellingwith 1't' also in Birkenhead at the time of Amy's birth but can't see her with them. I also went through Camden Street in 1881 to see if any of family still there (Birkinhead districts 12a and 12b) couldn't spot anything... (maybe someone would double check, i was heading for bed at the time ) haven't checked 1871 yet.. need to find out district number for that time

who and when did your grandad marry? who were the witnesses? Also do you know if Vera or Elsie married.... hoping that witnesses at any of these marriage may lead us somewhere there's got to be a little clue somewhere

Simone

Hi Simone, thank you for your welcome.

I have the marriage for my Grandfather, he married my Grandmother Margaret Ann Coogan on 26th December 1931, at St Mary of the Angels,( the Friary), Fox Street, Liverpool, and the address 12 Mansfield Street, is stated for them both as address at time of marriage.

Again no father for Thomas William(grandfather) stated. The witnesses where D J Coogan and N Grimes, which I know is my Grandmothers brother David, and Nora Grimes who was later to become his wife.

No idea how they came to be in Birkenhead, in 1911 after he was born, as I had searched for them all over Liverpool in the 1911 census, to no avail, and then thought I would check the surrounding areas.

My only connection to Birkenhead was that Amy states in 1911, she was born in Camden Street, Birkenhead, and this was a couple of roads away from Davies Street, Birkenhead I believe.

My grandfather after 1911, came back at some point to Mansfield Street, as when he was married to my grandmother, and left there, they went to live in Wakefield Street, the next Street.

My mum say's she remembers seeing a certificate from Liverpool education saying he was allowed to leave school around 14 years with permision??, and he went to school in the area, can't remember the name of hand.

With regard to Vera and Elsie, I have no clue, what happened to them, Elsie would have only been about 8 or 9 when Amy died, mum thought originally to look after his sisters. As far as I know mum say's they did not attend my Grandads weeding, when asked by Grandma, if he was inviting them, he declined and stated he knew where they were if he wanted to speak to them. so clearly something happened.

One of the sisters mum said had a job a chicken sexer, and thats all I have to go on.

Thanks for looking for me.

Hi

There is a possible marriage for Elsie on Cheshire BMD
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marri ... y=cheshire
1935
PATTERSON Elsie
TUMATH Robert Charles
Birkenhead, Civil Marriage
Wirral BW/166/8

unfortunately not in a church so can't get a lookup

Robert is living at Midland St, Birkenhead in 1911
RG14; Piece: 21986.

some 20 years earlier to marriage though

padjo1 wrote:Hi all - New member looking for help please


The 1911 census states my grandfather Thomas William, to be born at 45 Cockburn Street, Liverpool, this is not correct, as I have his birth certificate, and it states what we already knew, that he was born in Toxteth Park Workhouse, Smithdown Road, Liverpool .

The 45 Cockburn Street, was address on his birth certificate which Amy states she lived/worked at when he was born, as a domestic servant, possibly to hide the fact he was born in a workhouse


Thank you

Hi

I am wondering about this young lady in 1901

RG13; Piece: 3439; Folio: 68; Page: 19
Edward Abraham 54
Eliza E Abraham 24 nee Pattison (married in 1898)
Amy J Abraham 2
Mary K Pattison 49
Amy L Pattison 20 visitor


she is living in Hartington St, just off Smithdown Road

place of birth given as Liverpool, but that could just be because she is a visitor and those giving the info assumed so.

Thomas was born in Workhouse, Smithdown Road literally a couple of mins walk away. Also Cockburn St is not so far away

needs more investigation but got to go out now for a while

added later -- this Amy Bap at Edge Hill when she was 14 in 1895... family easily found on census in 1881 and 1891, father John.. so no links to Cheshire there

ooh look at the address on this 1901 marriage



ist marriage in 1876



1881
RG11; Piece: 3644; Folio: 40; Page: 10;
with the inlaws at Mill St ,and their children William James Patterson b c 1878 and Margaret A Patterson c 1880... no sign of an Amy unless she is Margaret Amy?
1891
RG12; Piece: 2925; Folio 32 Beaufort St
2 extra daughters now,
14 year old Elizabeth (where was she in 1881?) and 8 yr old Louisa

1901 William at Cockburn Street
RG13; Piece: 3430; Folio: 113; Page: 13

looks like Elizabeth In Northumberland in 1881, where William was from
RG11; Piece: 5129; Folio: 133; Page: 9
but with a different mother, Elizabeth
reckon William took her in as his own later on

oh well, getting nothing from this family

having trouble tracking this family after 1891

1881 Edmund St, Hanley, Staffs
RG11; Piece: 2718; Folio: 110; Page: 39
Arthur H. Pattison 32 grocer b Scotland
Eliza Pattison 28 b Stafford, Newcastle
Amy K. Pattison 6 b Birkenhead
Lillian Z. Pattison 5 b St Helens
Catherine Keeley 54 m in law, b Somerset

Amy is with Catherine in Runcorn in 1891
RG12; Piece: 2832; Folio 90; Page 16

Searah Gaudy 56
Katherine Keely 60 boarder
Amy Pattison 16 boarder
George Tuft 19 boarder

Going back to Cockburn St..

In 1901 no 45 has Joseph Wright and his family

RG13; Piece: 3430; Folio: 114; Page: 15

Can only see 1 birth reg that comes near for the time frame

Amy K Pattison jun q 1874 Birkenhead

No Pattersons unless she had or was known by another name

Hi Simmo
That's a good find Pattison.
I've looked too, as Amelia & Emily etc with no luck.
Also variation's on Patterson/Paterson in Birkenhead.
One thing I'm curious about is why she had the kiddies in the
workhouse? Would it have been in the hospital attached?
And no father's listed.
Perhaps one of the crew may know?
It's a toughie

Tina

Yes Tina I think it was often the case that kiddies born in workhouse hospital to unmarried mothers.

My gg grandmother had my g grandfather in there although she was at home with family around her.

Padjo1, do you have Amy's death cert... who was the informant

Simone x

Reckon this death could be Vera maybe...

Vera Paterson
Birth Date: abt 1909
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1935
Age at Death: 26
Registration district: Liverpool North
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 645

wonder who informant was and where she died?


(certainly can't see a marriage for her)

Hi Tina and Simone

Thanks for your help so far, some great information for me to look at, sorry could not be at my computor yesterday. Some interesting finds, you have made. More searching again today, she has to be somewere.

Hi Simone

I have the death certificate for Amy, the informant was H Linden??/Pinder, occupier 107 Rice Lane, the address for the workhouse. So may have been in the hospital wing

Although she is stated as being of 12 Mansfield Street, Liverpool, Spinster formerley a Servant.

The 12 Mansfield Street, was the address where Thomas William and Margaret Ann Coogan lived when they married in 1931, so some 9 years later my grandfather and Grandmother still lived at the same address. Not sure if there is any way of checking out the address, mum said they where large houses, sublet to many tennants

simone wrote:Hi

There is a possible marriage for Elsie on Cheshire BMD
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marri ... y=cheshire
1935
PATTERSON Elsie
TUMATH Robert Charles
Birkenhead, Civil Marriage
Wirral BW/166/8

unfortunately not in a church so can't get a lookup

if this is right

Robert seems to have died in 1966... and then looks like Elsie may have remarried in 1968 to a Mr Hill
Dec q 1968
Birkenhead
vol 10a page 34

page no looks more like 36 on image but still can't find him

can't find out Mr Hill's name though... none of the sites give it when I click link on page no

found it

Frederick Hill
10a Page 36

can't be definite on all this though can we

Hi Simone

Some really good detective work here, will look to send off for it, if it is her could shed a light on something.

Thanks again