Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi.........Charles Davies is the brother of John William Davies, who you all helped establish was my grandfather......The Norah and Sara Davies saga!! Well I have hit a snag with Charles too.... can anyone please help

Charles Davies born 1882
Mother SARA WEST SMART (DAVIES, LATER JONES)
Father WILLIAM DAVIES 1855-1886
Baptism 16th August 1982 Edge Hill St Nathaniel
1901 census resident 40 Lonsdale road with mother Sara and step father William Jones

I found a marriage for Charles Davies with a Gertrude Roberts 7th June 1908 everything on the certificate seems to fit.


When you found the grave for John William Davies (1878 died 24 december 1915) there was also a child buried there Lilian E Davies 1912-1912, who you thought was the child of a Charles and a Harriet Robert. Could not find this marriage, only the one for Gertrude. My tree has now gone off on a tangent again.

I am still awaiting birth certificates and death certificates for the Davies family so thought I would tackle Charles while waiting......

CORRECTION TO ABOVE.........told you I had lost the plot

The childs name was

JANE HELEN DAVIES 1903 - 1904....

Sorry

Hi Sue,

Jane Helen Davies was the daughter of John William and Norah. Her baptism was posted here:
http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.or ... f9f796df6e

Her death was registered but I can't see a birth registration for her!

I'm not sure where she's buried but there is a Jane Helen Davies in Walton Park cemetery according to Ancestry.

There are two marriages of Charles Davies to a Roberts on FreeBMD:
Mar 1908 to Harriet Roberts
June 1908 to Gertrude Roberts

However, it does look like Gertrude is the right one.

There is a burial for Charles Davies in Toxteth Park on 3 Feb 1917. His address is given as 48 Thames Street - same as John William's. The CWGC record for Charles confirms his wife as Gertrude.

So poor Sara West Jones lost both her sons on WW1.

Jane Helen was the duaghter of John William though

[/quote]


Charles and Gertrude in 1911

Class: RG14; Piece: 22594 18 Palmerston St
Charles Davies 29 House painter
Gertrude Davies 26
Ellen Davies 2
Gertrude Davies 1
all born Liverpool

18 Palmerston Street was the address given on Charles CWGC record so the family was still there in 1917.

Alison said

There is an entry in FreeBMD for the death of John W Davies aged 37 in Q4 1915 in West Derby. He is buried in Toxteth Park Cemetery section 11 grave 149. Address 48 Thames Street, Toxteth Park. In the same grave are:

Elizabeth Davies, 12 July 1891, aged 14
John Francis Davies, 26 November 1907, aged 7
William Davies, plumber, 4 January 1886, aged 29 (John William's dad)
Olive Jane Taylor, 6 March 1895, aged 30 (nee Smart so likely a relation of Sara West)
Lilian Elizabeth Davies, 20 July 1912, aged 2 months (mother's name was Roberts. There is a marriage of Charles Davies to Harriett Roberts in 1908 in WD so this could be their child)

the marriage is on Lancs BMD as Charles Davies to Gertrude Roberts... not sure where Alison got marriage from...but looks like Gertrude is right lady

ahhh beat me to it Alison

Aha...looks like Jane Helen may have been registered as Jane Ellen!

FreeBMD has in Jun 1903:

DAVIES Jane Ellen Liverpool 8b 92

Charles' wife Gertrude never re-married. Gertrude Sarah Davies died in 1970 aged 85. She is buried in Toxteth Park with her husband.

Hi folks......this took longer than I thought!!

Have found two Gerturde Roberts

1. Gertrude Roberts 1885
parents evan roberts 1842-1899
Jane Griffiths 1845-1924
Sister Maggie Roberts 1877
Marriage to Charles Davies, 7th June 1908....Both Parents fit
1911 censue 18 Palmerston street, here with both girls

CWGC (what does it stand for and how can I find them) records says the family was still here in 1917...........dont know how to quote yet!! But Alison C kindly found this information

When I researched Gerturde Sarah Davies I came up with her parents as Evans and Gertrude Roberts on census for 1891 with to girls Gertrude S Roberts , Ellen and a son George.

So is the Charles that you found Alison with wife called Gertrude Sarah Davies who died in 1970 possibly wrong one.........

Still waiting for birth and death certificates from liverpool[quote][/quote]

Commonwealth War Graves Commission an excellent site for military ancestors.

Hi Sue,

The entry for Charles Davies on CWGC says:
Name: DAVIES, CHARLES
Initials: C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps (Infantry)
Unit Text: 72nd Coy. "B.2" (Service) Bn.
Age: 35
Date of Death: 27/01/1917
Service No: 58045
Additional information: Husband of Gertrude Davies, of 18, Palmerston St., Edge Hill, Liverpool.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: B. (left) C.E. 368.
Cemetery: LIVERPOOL (TOXTETH PARK) CEMETERY


The Toxteth Park Cemetery website shows Gertrude Sarah Davies died 1970 and is buried in the same plot:
Davies, Gertrude Sarah 19 February 1970 85 years - 32 Windsor View Liverpool 8

So the Charles Davies in Toxteth Park lived at 18 Palmerston Street - which ties in with the details you found for Gertrude, daughter of Evan and Jane. Perhaps she didn't always use her middle name?

My initial thought is that we have 2 Gertrude Sarah's both with Father Evan. However if you search on Ancestry for Gertrude Roberts, father Evan there is only 1 shown for both 1891 and 1901: Gertrude S Roberts.

So now I'm wondering if Evan remarried at some point between 1885 (when Gertrude was born) and 1891.

Alison

1891
8 Jacob Street
RG12; Piece: 2930; Folio 16; Page 25
Evan Roberts 28 bookeeper
Gertrude Roberts 29
Gertrude S Roberts 6
Ellen M Roberts 4
George E Roberts 1
Sarah Purcell 54 aunt


1883 sep q toxteth park
marriage Evan Roberts to Gertrude Purcell



can't see Gertrude in 1871, but there is a Jane


RG10; Piece: 3844; Folio: 133; Page: 14
Mary Pollard 48 marine storekeepre, b Whitchurch, shropshire
Thomas Hazlehurst 17 son, cabinet maker, b Whitchrch Shrop
George Hazlehurst 14 scholar, B liverpool
Nathaniel Hazlehurst 5 b Liverpool
Jane Purcell 10 niece b Liverpool

1881 has a Jane, can't see a Gertrude but not sure if same Jane as 1871
RG11; Piece: 3606; Folio: 131; Page: 33
Vauxhall Road
Bryan T. Scott 29
Hannah Scott 24
Thomas J. Scott 4
Elizabeth S. Scott 2
Walter C. Scott 1
Jane Purcel 15 sister in law
Richard Livingston 29
Margaret Wallace 20

Bryan T Scott married Hannah Purcell in 1876..

1871 has Hannah Purcell (transcribed Curcell) as daughter of Lancelot and Mary with a sister Jane age 6
RG10; Piece: 3826; Folio: 125; Page: 26
at Whittle Street, Kirkdale

in 1861 they are at Upper James Street
RG9; Piece: 2738; Folio: 179; Page: 6;
so think we can rule the Jane out, as Gertrude's marriage states no father, mother Fanny

aha

notice witness at marriage of Gertrude is Ellen Riley and mother is Fanny Purcell

1871
RG10; Piece: 3844; Folio: 78; Page: 17

Fanny Purcell 28 b Hertfordshire, travelling hawker, reckon it could be Herefordshire
Patrick Riley 38 borader b Ireland
Ellen Riley 26
Alice Riley 7
Fanny Riley 5
Tom Riley 2
Francis Riley 7 Months


but where is Gertrude/Jane
and where are they all in 1881

1891
8 Jacob Street
RG12; Piece: 2930; Folio 16; Page 25
Evan Roberts 28 bookeeper
Gertrude Roberts 29
Gertrude S Roberts 6
Ellen M Roberts 4
George E Roberts 1
Sarah Purcell 54 aunt b Herefordshire

looks like Sarah and Fanny could be sisters

1841 at West Street, Leominster
HO107; Piece 430; Book: 2
George Purcell 40 butcher
Mary Purcell 35
Ann Purcell 14
Betsey Purcell 10
Sarah Purcell 8
Emma Purcell 6
Thomas Purcell 4
Fanny Purcell 1

1851
Corn Street, Leominster
HO107; Piece: 1981; Folio: 95; Page: 1
George Purcell 51
Mary Purcell 46
Ann Purcell 24
Sarah Purcell 18
Emma Purcell 16
Thomas Purcell 14
Fanny Purcell 11
Ellen R Purcell 1

still in Leominster in 1861
RG9; Piece: 1831; Folio: 38; Page: 27

1871
RG10; Piece: 2714; Folio: 42; Page: 31
George Purcell 73
Mary Purcell 68
Ann Purcell 38
Sarah Purcell 32
James Purcell 11
Gertrude Purcell 8 daughter

1881
28 South st, toxteth
RG11; Piece: 3647; Folio: 40; Page: 4
Ann Purcell 45 widow, b leominster
Sarah Purcell 38 dressmaker
James Purcell 21 joiner
Gertrude Purcell 19 niece b Leominster

now I've lost the plot don't know what's going on now
not sure any of thet helps at all

Well have now married off Evan Roberts ( I had him from North Wales, think this is where I went wrong, he was married to a Jane) from liverpool to Gertrude Purcell (instead of Jane)....mother Fanny unmarried . Evan Roberts parent are Evan Roberts 1821-1903 and mother Ellen Roberts 1826-1900........i think!!

Gertude and Evan found on 1911 census..address 53 Willoughby Street, Liverpool..bad spelling of names
29 years of marriage, 8 children born alive, 3 living, 4 dead-think this should be other way around, because missing is Gertrude and she is living with Charles and their children in 1911

I think I have it right now......ALISON C many thanks for CWGC info after going to see WAR HORSE the other day, this makes it all too real

Watched Granada's Reports news programme couple of days ago, showing plaque to first world war dead.......will have to pay a visit and check both John William and Charles Davies are there!!!! Their poor mother, both sons dead and both their wifes left with children

when weather gets better would love to meet all of you!!!

ahh wondered where they were in 1911... that was what was confusing me Ertan Roberts
RG14; Piece: 22594

we got there in the end Sue

correction to Ancestry done

Many thanks to everyone..............again


This is only my dads side.........wait till I get to my mothers!!!!