Queries re N.P.Jacobson's death

Post by **kwr** » 20 Dec 2011 14:19

My g.g.g.grandfather Niels Peter Jacobson came from Nyburg in Denmark, to Liverpool probably in 1840 though I cannot be sure of it, and apparently, worked first for a company called Lovatt and Corran. By 1845 he had been naturalised – I have his records for this. By now he was a captain and worked for Hatton and Cookson another Liverpool firm. I have this information from another descendant of his but haven't checked it and frankly don't know how to at present.

In December 1850 captaining “Heroine” he set off for Africa. According to my informant he rescued the Laura Campbell which was in distress. In early January he set off for Africa again but met such bad weather that the ship foundered – they all died. Again according to my source, it was reported in local newspapers and Lloyds List – so far I haven't been able to confirm this either. His wife is still married but an annuitant,according to the 1851 census but it may be that the legal processes are still being gone through. There is no death certificate on freeBMD for him. Can't find a will either.

Now (finally you might say) the queries....Are there records about deaths at sea? Would the widow have to prove death? She remarries in 1856 so presumably has done so by then.

As usual all comments gratefully received.

Ken

Post by **daggers** » 20 Dec 2011 15:15

There are reports in a few newspapers, including the Liverpool Mercury, saying much the same:
27 Dec, arrived, Heroine, Jacobson, hence for Africa, at Waterford.

28 Jan 1851: Ship News, Queenstown, Jan 24
Several additional pieces of wreck, clothing etc. have been washed ashore at Ballycroneen among which is a steering wheel with rose, thistle & shamrock painted on it, and parts of letters addressed to Capt. Jacobson, barque Heroine. It is feared that the vessel is totally lost.

D

Post by **daggers** » 20 Dec 2011 15:26

Ken
I wonder if you know of this, found via Google:
http://www.familyhistorymonthly.com/qanda-detail/42

D

Post by **kwr** » 20 Dec 2011 16:10

Daggers - thank you for both your replies. Is it possible to look at the Liverpool Mercury bit you quote online? or the Queenstown reference you have?

The other piece on him that you found is it seems, the person who gave me the material I quoted. I didn't get all the detail he supplied to the magazine. I didn't want to name him. I have had no contact with him for some years although I have left a very occasional message. So thank you for a few snippets...

Ken

Post by **daggers** » 20 Dec 2011 16:48

Ken
The newspaper extracts were found by using a library card which allows access to certain online archived newspapers, including one of our locals - the Mercury. I find it hard to extract an image from an archived newspaper, so wrote it down and typed it in. Others may have better skill.

Lancashire's website says that anyone in Uk can apply for a card, but I do not know how keenly they enforce that. It might be worth a go:
http://www3.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate ... =938&tab=1

Other counties may be more open.
D

Post by **Blue70** » 20 Dec 2011 19:14

Liverpool Mercury, Friday, 24 January, 1851

Morning Chronicle, Monday, 27 January, 1851

Daily News, Tuesday, 28 January, 1851

Liverpool Mercury, Tuesday, 28 January, 1851

Blue

Post by **Blue70** » 20 Dec 2011 23:09

Ken,

My Great, Great Grandfather was lost at sea his death was never ever recorded anywhere and there is no probate information on the Ancestry website for him. He was a fireman so probably didn't have much to divide between family members. Some of the senior members of his crew did have estates to sort out if you look at the thread below it will give you some idea of your ancestor's legal situation:-

http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/p ... hp?t=10618

Blue

Post by **aop27** » 20 Dec 2011 23:39

Have you tried the following resource for newspapers? Its fairly recent and some of the indexing is less than perfect but it does include the Liverpool Mercury:

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk

Post by **kwr** » 21 Dec 2011 09:54

Blue,

Thank you VERY much for putting on the original newspaper reports - now I have to work out how to transfer them to my file on Niels Jacobson - but that's my problem.... also for your reference re the legal aspect. I'll look.

Andrew - thanks for the newspaper site reference. I'll try it though I'm not much kop with some things.

Ken

Post by **Blue70** » 21 Dec 2011 10:20

Hi Ken,

Just "right click" and "save as" on each image to save to your computer. You could then insert them into a Word Document and arrange them the way you want them and print them.

Blue

Post by **dickiesam** » 21 Dec 2011 10:49

Now (finally you might say) the queries....Are there records about deaths at sea? Would the widow have to prove death? She remarries in 1856 so presumably has done so by then.

Hi Ken,
Back then, in order for a death to be entered into the GRO Death Index there had to be a body. Only the deaths of British Nationals could be recorded and there is an Index dealing with deaths at sea.

When a body was not 'present' the widow would have been in a form of limbo as regards the deceased's estate. Unless death could be proven her husband was simply 'missing' in the eyes of the law.

The situation was somewhat regularised in 1902 by the introduction of the Benjamin Order. This an English law order made by the court for the distribution of assets on death when it is uncertain whether or not a beneficiary is alive, usually after a 7 year period. The order derives its name from the case of Benjamin in 1902. The order authorizes the personal representatives of the deceased who administers the estate to distribute the property on the basis that the beneficiary is dead or on some other basis. The personal representatives are thus protected from being sued if the beneficiary is in fact still alive.

Up to 1902 a spouse of a missing person could not 'officially' be a widow or widower and would be taking a chance if they remarried. However, bigamy could not be proved unless the missing spouse could be shown to be still alive. A Catch 22 situation!

Following on from the end of WW1 when so many servicemen were 'missing presumed dead', I believe a coroner is allowed to declare a missing person as dead if there is sufficient evidence for him to make that decision, such as in a very recent case where a sub-aqua diver went missing during a dive and never surfaced, nor was his body recovered.

DS

Post by **Hilary** » 21 Dec 2011 11:04

If the wreckage was washed up on the coast of Ireland is it not possible that if bodies were found they would be registered in Ireland?

Also it was unusual for people to own their own houses at this time people rented including those with a lot of money. How do you know he owned the house?

Post by **kwr** » 21 Dec 2011 12:52

Thank you Blue - I've done it and it works!

Hilary, I didn't know that he owned the house but was told he did by the other descendant with whom I used to be in contact but now seems not to be reachable. I'll have a look at Irish deaths if possible. As I mentioned earlier his widow remarried in Cheshire in 1856 so she must have been sure.

Dickiesam - what a mine of information you are. Ta muchly.

Ken

Post by **dickiesam** » 21 Dec 2011 14:02

If the wreckage was washed up on the coast of Ireland is it not possible that if bodies were found they would be registered in Ireland?

Hello Hilary,
Any unidentified body found would be buried at the expense of the parish in an 'unknown' grave and probably unmarked. If the local authorities assumed where the body had come from, as in the sinking of the Lusitania, but it was still not identifiable, it would probably be in a marked grave as unidentified bodies from the Lusitania are.

The death would be registered as 'unknown'. If the nationality was known the death would be reported to the relevant diplomatic Mission or Embassy. I understand that the embassy might make a contribution or actually pay for the burial and any funeral rites performed.

DS

Post by **MaryA** » 21 Dec 2011 17:39

kwr wrote: Dickiesam - what a mine of information you are. Ta muchly.

I agree. DS, would you be kind enough to post that summary about the Benjamin Order on the "For Posterity" Board so that it will be there for future reference.

Post by **dickiesam** » 21 Dec 2011 19:01

MaryA wrote:
kwr wrote: Dickiesam - what a mine of information you are. Ta muchly.
I agree. DS, would you be kind enough to post that summary about the Benjamin Order on the "For Posterity" Board so that it will be there for future reference.

Consider it done!
DS

Post by **MaryA** » 21 Dec 2011 23:40

I saw, thank you, I'm sure it will prove useful.

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