Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I am trying to find the baptismal record of Kathleen Hilda Smith. She was born in December 1906 in Dawson Grove off Rupert Lane L5. Looking at maps of the RC churches in the area I think that the above three parishes viz SFX, The Friary or Sacred Heart would be the most likely church in which she would have been baptised. Can anyone with access to these records confirm her date of birth and baptism or suggest any other church which may be close to Dawson Grove. Her original birth record was destroyed and her baptismal record is the only way of confirming her date of birth.
Many thanks
Marie

I'm afraid that there doesn't appear to be an entry online for your Kathleen, it would need somebody to go to the Record Office and search the Registers.

I don't quite know what you mean by her birth record being destroyed, you can order a Certified copy of a birth certificate by two means, either from the Liverpool Register Office, or from the GRO in Southport. This second option you can do online at www.gro.gov.uk however you would need the details from the birth index - year and quarter of registration and the references to go with it.

As you say her birth was in December 1906, the registration may well have taken place in the first quarter of 1907 and there are two Kathleen H Smiths registered in the West Derby district in that quarter.

Your best option would be to write to the Liverpool Register Office http://liverpool.gov.uk/births-marriage ... tificates/ with the details that you have, especially her parents names and ask that they check their register and provide you with the correct certificate. The charge will be the same as the GRO would make, however, it will be easier for them to do a search and come up with the right entry, especially with a name such as Smith.

Mary, thank you for your reply. Very unusually the original records for this birth were destroyed (by fire I think and the original record no longer exists) A relative then had to make a legal declaration sometime later as to the date of the birth and a duplicate record made but there has always been some slight doubt as to whether it was the correct date and I felt the only way to confirm it was to seek out the baptismal certificate. I will make a visit to the record office and see if I can solve the mystery there,
Thanks again,
Marie member 6557

From MaryA

I don't quite know what you mean by her birth record being destroyed, you can order a Certified copy of a birth certificate by two means, either from the Liverpool Register Office, or from the GRO in Southport. This second option you can do online at www.gro.gov.uk however you would need the details from the birth index - year and quarter of registration and the references to go with it.

Have to say I am also puzzled about the 'original record' being destroyed. My understanding is that the 'original' entry would be in the Registry Office where the birth was registered. A quarterly report was submitted to the GRO by the Registrar of every District Registry Office with copies of the entries and the information entered into the Index. The same procedure applied to marriages and deaths. The copy BMD entries would then be archived and these are the source of the information when a cert is ordered from the GRO in Southport.

If the original in the Registry Office was destroyed it is unlikely to have been destroyed on its own. Any damaged records would be easily replaced from the GRO. And there is more than one copy of the GRO Index.

DS

The entry for Kathleen H Smith has been added by hand to the birth indexes for Jan/Feb/Mar 1907, rather than give a volume and page number, after W/Derby it says Sep/29. According to FreeBMD 29 is out of the page range so could this refer to the date September 29th of the previous year?


Blue

Was her mothers maiden name Davies? if so the Sept 29 could refer to September quarter 1929 when there was a birth registration for (see below)

Births Sept 1929

Smith Kathleen H (Davies) West Derby 8b 944

This would say to me that when she was born for some reason or other there may have been a mistake or error made which may have been corrected in 1929 which explains the handwritten Sept 1929 in the March qtr of 1907. You will need to obtain the certificate.

From Katie:

This would say to me that when she was born for some reason or other there may have been a mistake or error made which may have been corrected in 1929 which explains the handwritten Sept 1929 in the March qtr of 1907

Personal experience indicates that the child's birth was in fact never registered for some reason. Only when a birth certificate was needed was the omission discovered. A sworn attestation has to be given to a Registrar in order for the omission to be rectified. The original 1907 Index cannot be reprinted so a hand-written notation is made at the bottom of the Index page with a cross-reference to the Index for the quarter when the omission was rectified.

DS

There was an RC Confirmation of a Kathleen Smith on 9 April 1916 at Sacred Heart unfortunately no ages are given on the record. If you want to pursue a baptism record try the early months of 1907 for Sacred Heart.


Blue

The above helpful replies refer to the GRO indexes. There has been much research into the correctness of these indexes since there are a number of steps taken between the original birth registration and the production of these indexes and there are many occasions for pitfalls.

This is why my original suggestion may be worth investigating - apply to the Liverpool Register Office, giving full details including mother's maiden name.

To clarify - the Register Office for births, the Record Office for baptisms.

Thank you Mary, Dickiesam, Blue and Katie for your helpful suggestions. This birth record is that of the mother of a friend. My friend has the birth certificate but her mother always had a slight doubt that it was her true birth date because it was recorded later. She was told that the original had been destroyed which perplexed me but I feel that Dickiesam is possibly right and that the birth wasn't registered at the time. I know that that was sometimes the case in the past but rarely was the child not baptised which was why I am trying to find her place of Baptism as that will give me hopefully both her birth date and baptismal date. My friend is away at the moment so I will confirm with her her grandmother's maiden name when she returns. I will also look at the baptismal records for Sacred Heart in the record office. Thanks again for your suggestions,
Marie

Hi Marie

The baptism would be available on microfiche at the Record Office or you could contact Liverpool History Projects who provide an RC baptism service. They provide baptism records up to 1900 and are willing to provide records beyond that date:-

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/contact.htm


Blue

Hi Blue,

Thanks for that information. I hadn't realised that you could have a search done on the years that have not yet been uploaded on the Liverpool history projects. I'll follow that through,

Marie