help finding someone

Post by **twiggy2** » 10 Aug 2011 11:03

Hi I am hoping someone can help, I am actually looking for someone from Manchester but having no luck at all and I thought someone may have an idea of how to find them.
I am searching for a birth cert of someone and despite having a baptism record with fathers name etc I cannot find a birth cert anywhere, any ideas why this may be; they were born in 1906 in Manchester
Also her father who was born abt 1837 died abt 1915 wondering who his parents were, I thought the best place to start would be his marriage cert, problem is I can’t track down a marriage cert for him either! Although we know he and his wife were married around 1904 ish probably in Manchester.
Any ideas on how to find them would be massively welcomed
Thanks in advance

Post by **MaryA** » 10 Aug 2011 11:59

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Although Manchester is a little out of our normal area, we would certainly try to help.

Would you please give the details from the baptism certificate, if the birth took place in 1906 I would think you are fairly safe in posting whatever information you have as they may not be living any longer.

The father, who died about 1915 - have you traced him through the censuses? if so please give details, preferably with references if you have them. If he was born about 1837 a 1904 marriage would seem rather late, is this date correct?

Do you have details of any of his other children. Have you identified the family in the 1911 census?

Post by **twiggy2** » 10 Aug 2011 12:34

hi thank you so much, sorry he was born 1877, not 1837
the info i have currently is

Would you please give the details from the baptism certificate, if the birth took place in 1906 I would think you are fairly safe in posting whatever information you have as they may not be living any longer.

violet nolan 21 11 1906 manchester
bap st thomas church 2 12 1906

The father, who died about 1915 - have you traced him through the censuses? if so please give details, preferably with references if you have them. If he was born about 1837 a 1904 marriage would seem rather late, is this date correct?

he is on the census in 1911 in manchester(a hairdresser) with his wife elizabeth formerly vernon born 1880 shef yorks but struggling for before this as abviously with a name like john nolan he is hard to find, although we have a birth record for him in 1877 in manchester- cant be sure its him of course but a good match!

Do you have details of any of his other children. Have you identified the family in the 1911 census?

he had another child named florence born 1907 manc

thats all we have
was a bit concerned re putting info on here as obv still have living relatives
thank you for the welcome and the help
Regards

Post by **northmeols** » 10 Aug 2011 14:24

Births Jun 1905
Nolan Violet Burnley 8e 232

Births Mar 1907
NOLAN Florence Preston 8e 562

Deaths Sep 1915
Nolan John age 38 Manchester 8d 225

Post by **MaryA** » 10 Aug 2011 14:32

Sorry for extra questions - if you don't have a birth certificate of one of the children, how do you know Elizabeth's name was Vernon?

Can you give the address on the 1911 census please and how many years did they say they had been married?

Post by **MaryA** » 10 Aug 2011 14:39

I would suggest that IF Elizabeth's maiden name was Vernon that you investigate this marriage.

Elizabeth Whittaker married John Thomas Nolan Salford St George 1904
GRO information - Q3 1904 8d 44

and if that appears to be correct - ie if she is a widow, then investigate the marriage of
Elizabeth Nolan to William Henry Whittaker Salford Register Office or Registrar Attended 1895
GRO information - Q1 1895 8d 136

This earlier marriage probably took place in an RC church.

Post by **dickiesam** » 10 Aug 2011 14:54

Hi,
The only births in Lancshire that are near the birth years in the following census are these two. I think it very unlikely that Violet's birth was not registered. In her case the Burnley reference indicates where the birth was registered, not where the birth took place. That info will be on the birth cert itself. The census indicates both births took place in Manchester, which could mean anywhere in it's vicinity.

Births Jun 1905: Nolan, Violet - Burnley - 8e - 232.
Births Jun 1908: NOLAN, Florence - Prestwich - 8d - 408.

The absence of a John Nolan & Elizabeth Vernon marriage record anywhere in England and Wales [1900-1915] would confirm to me that the couple were not in fact married. The note on the census that they had been married 5 years would have been written in order to legitimise the birth of the first child. Seen that before, several times. So I am assuming that one or other of the parents was still married.

No marriage might also explain why Violet's birth was registered 'out-of-area' and the birth itself may have also been away-from-home. The DoB given on the baptism cert would also be a fiction to help with the overall 'big porky'.

I am fairly sure that in 1901 John Nolan is here:
NOLAN, John - Boarder - 30 - 1871 - Hairdresser - Manchester.
Address: 57 New Bridge Street, North Manchester.
RG13 / Piece:3770 / Folio:47 / Page:5.
Unfortunately his marital status is not on the census summary page.

This could be Elizabeth in 1901..
VERNON, Elizabeth - Servant - u/m - 19 - 1882 - General Servant Domestic - Sheffield, Yorkshire.
Address: 88 Manley Road, Withington, Lancashire.
RG number: RG13 / Piece:3672 / Folio:54 / Page:3.

Withington was more or less a suburb of Manchester only 4 miles from the city centre.

Dickiesam

Post by **dickiesam** » 10 Aug 2011 15:13

May be irrelevant or could be cat-among-the-pigeons time....

Looked for John Nolan bn abt 1873 in the 1891 Lancashire census. Only 2 hits were for none-manual labouring occupations. One was a law clerk, unlikely to become a hairdresser; the other was a hairdresser already...

NOLAN, Christopher - Head - Married - 59 - 1832 - Labourer - Ireland.
NOLAN, John - Son - 20 - 1871 - Hairdresser - Ireland.
NOLAN, Mary - Dtr - 23 - 1868 - Ireland.
NOLAN, Christopher D - Son - 15 - 1876 - Brokers Assistant - Ireland.
NOLAN, Andrew - Son - 13 - 1878 - Scholar - Ireland.
KINSELLA, Edward - Boarder - u/m - 26 - 1865 - Iron Worker - Ireland.
Address: 61 Bewsey Road, Warrington, Lancashire.
RG number: RG12 / Piece:3076 / Folio:12 / Page:18.

DS

Post by **Clatterbridgegirl1967** » 10 Aug 2011 15:29

Lots of good info from special people, is word geting out how great the guys on here are? it had to happen sometime

Ali

Post by **twiggy2** » 10 Aug 2011 15:58

ooh how very interesting, I had found the eliz whittaker marriage before but thought the name didnt match so disregarded it we are sure that eliz maiden name was vernon as it is a family name that has come down to the present but would be interesting to find out if she was married before. i found the withington eliz before also and thought it may be her also.
Thank you for all of that, off now to buy all those certs, any suggestions as to where to start first?
thanks again, what a brilliant site!

Post by **MaryA** » 10 Aug 2011 16:01

I'm supposing that you aren't near enough to Manchester to be able to check the parish register for yourself, which would save you the cost of a certificate.

Dickiesam's find of Elizabeth in 1901 would seem to conflict with the marriage I thought of, unless she reverted to her maiden name. So don't order both marriage certs at the same time in case the first one is incorrect.

Post by **twiggy2** » 10 Aug 2011 16:02

MaryA wrote:I would suggest that IF Elizabeth's maiden name was Vernon that you investigate this marriage.

Elizabeth Whittaker married John Thomas Nolan Salford St George 1904
GRO information - Q3 1904 8d 44

and if that appears to be correct - ie if she is a widow, then investigate the marriage of
Elizabeth Nolan to William Henry Whittaker Salford Register Office or Registrar Attended 1895
GRO information - Q1 1895 8d 136

This earlier marriage probably took place in an RC church.

why the thought re the RC church?
the 1911 census shows them at 14 ebeneezer place chetham, john signed his name on ther returm rather well so had some level of education too by the looks of things?

Post by **twiggy2** » 10 Aug 2011 16:03

MaryA wrote:I'm supposing that you aren't near enough to Manchester to be able to check the parish register for yourself, which would save you the cost of a certificate.

Dickiesam's find of Elizabeth in 1901 would seem to conflict with the marriage I thought of, unless she reverted to her maiden name.

i could get to manchester but im not sure how to do a prirish register search

that probably sounds really dopey doesnt it! sorry!!

Post by **Hilary** » 10 Aug 2011 16:25

Maybe the couple weren't married. If her name was Vernon perhaps this one needs investigating

Violet Vernon Dec Q 1906 Manchester 8d p249

Post by **twiggy2** » 10 Aug 2011 16:37

Education Officer wrote:Maybe the couple weren't married. If her name was Vernon perhaps this one needs investigating

Violet Vernon Dec Q 1906 Manchester 8d p249

ooooh how interesting!!

Post by **Hilary** » 10 Aug 2011 16:59

www.freebmd.org.uk records these 2 births

Beatrice NOLAN mother's maiden name VERNON Prestwich 1916 8d 438

Nancy E NOLAN mother's maiden name VERNON Prestwich 1919 8d 375

Do these names ring any bells? Or maybe to family members.

Post by **twiggy2** » 10 Aug 2011 17:00

Education Officer wrote:www.freebmd.org.uk records these 2 births

Beatrice NOLAN mother's maiden name VERNON Prestwich 1916 8d 438

Nancy E NOLAN mother's maiden name VERNON Prestwich 1919 8d 375

Do these names ring any bells? Or maybe to family members.

yes they are sisters of violet! thank you so much, havent been able to find anything like this!!
could be useful to get one of these and then see what they say, yes?

Post by **twiggy2** » 10 Aug 2011 17:01

apparently have to book manc microfishe

Post by **Hilary** » 10 Aug 2011 17:13

MaryA do you mean Elizabeth VERNON married Mr Whittaker?

On the baptism does it give an address and father's occupation?

Post by **Hilary** » 10 Aug 2011 17:18

Elizabeth would have been very young in 1895!

Is St Thomas Church RC or CE?