Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I'm hoping someone may be able to find Henry in the later censuses

He was born in 1826 in Hutton Lancashire son of Henry and Sarah Dobson. They moved to Liverpool and he is in the 1841 and 1851 censuses with his father and siblings in Thurlow Street. Henry's occupation given as carver

The 1861 census shows him in Shoreditch London with a wife Sarah born in Ireland and son Henry J aged 2. I have found their marriage in 1855 at Holy Triniy Hoxton and also the baptism and burial of their daughter Hannah in 1853 at St Pancras.

BUT I can't find any trace of them after that. He is not the Henry Dobson born in Hutton living in Liverpool as a cowkeeper and landowner.

I'm hoping someone else may find the couple living or dead. From my notes there is a possibilty he died back in Liverpool but where are the wife and child?

After more rummaging in old notes I think he died in September 1867 and was buried in Anfield cemetery. I'd still like to find the wife and child.

Deaths Mar 1863 DOBSON Henry James Shoreditch 1c 122


Deaths Mar 1884 Dobson Henry 0 Shoreditch 1c 69

Thanks for that

The first one is a possibility but to add to the confusion there is another Henry James Dobson born around the same time in the same place.

Now we just need Sarah!

Education Officer wrote:I'm hoping someone may be able to find Henry in the later censuses

The 1861 census shows him in Shoreditch London with a wife Sarah born in Ireland and son Henry J aged 2. I have found their marriage in 1855 at Holy Triniy Hoxton and also the baptism and burial of their daughter Hannah in 1853 at St Pancras.

Hi Hilary

sorry, just a bit confused.. they married after they had Hannah.. living in sin for a couple of years

Sarah's maiden name Whithem?

Simone x

Hi Hilary,
Just suppose this death is their child..
Deaths Mar 1863> DOBSON, Henry James - Shoreditch - 1c - 122.

And Henry and Sarah came up north....
Deaths Sep 1867> Dobson, Henry - 41 - Liverpool - 8b - 215.
The given age is very close and the event would fit your notes.

Then checked the 1871 for Sarah [bn Ireland] with the spouse surnames [plus the right spouse forename and a wide spread for her age] from these marriages...
Marriages Jun 1868> Dobson Sarah - Liverpool - 8b - 302 [Gates or Donkin]. No hits.
Marriages Mar 1869> DOBSON, Sarah - W. Derby - 8b - 412 [Bartle]. 1 hit, see below.
Marriages Sep 1869> Dobson, Sarah - West Derby - 8b - 602 [Mason or Wright]. No hits.

BARTLE, James - Lodger - 52 - 1819 - Storekeeper - Worcestershire.
BARTLE, Sarah - Wife - 42 - 1829 - Ireland.
Address: 16 Kemble Street, West Derby, Liverpool, Lancashire.
RG number: RG10 / Piece:3844 / Folio:83 / Page:27.

DS

Curious about Sarah I couldn't find her or spouse James Bartle in 1881. So went browsing and found this:

Deaths Jun 1874> Bartle, James - 62 - Liverpool - 8b - 163.
The age is out according to the census but stranger things have happened.

Then...
Marriages Jun 1877 - Liverpool - 8b - 371 - Bartle, Sarah & Rowlands, Matthew.

A search for Sarah R in 1881 found her in Festiniog, Merioneth, bn Dublin, Ireland 1834. RG11 / 5551 / 23 / 40.
There's 4 children in the household, the eldest being bn 1864. No problem, this is Matthew's 2nd marriage because in 1871 his wife is Ann, bn 1843 in Denbighshire. RG10 / 5697 / 61 / 30.

If this is Sarah, she is a survivor!

DS

You're right DS they were living in sin for 2 years. I like Sarah - as you see a survivor. Yes she was Sarah Whitham but she was a widow and her father's name was Edward Tucker so she married 4 times!!!!

I'm really trying to get to grips with my Dobsons, my mother's family. Unfortunately I'm finding lots of children who didn't survive. My grandfather lost his first wife and his 2 children and then 3 of his 6 children by his second marriage. He had a good job and would have been able to afford medical treatment. This was 1891 - 1921. Then this evening I discovered his father had bee married twice and had lost a wife and a child before my grandfather was born to the second wife.

Many thanks for all the help.

Sarah definitely marries James Bartles as I've found the marriage and her father is given as Edward Tucker the same as for her marriage to henry Dobson.

I've also discovered Matthew Rowlands died in 1886. That's 4 Husbands she's lost!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I've lost her!!!!!

In 1890 she married Robert Ellis in Ffestiniog and is running the grocer's shop of her previous husband in Ffestiniog

Haven't found them yet in 1901 and wondering if this is a police job!! Will it be 5 dead husbands!!!!

Henry and Sarah first married in London? but now you say they were together a couple of years previously, could her family have also lived in Liverpool before they went to London?

1851 HO107; Piece: 2192; Folio: 300; Page: 23
Edward Tucker is a 45 year old Porter born Cork
Hannah is 43 Sempstress born Glasgow and children all born Dublin
Sarah 21 Dressmaker, Edward 18 Painter, Margaret 14 and Samuel 12

In 1861 Edward is 58, Storekeeper from the City of Cork, Hannah also 58, Glasgow and only Margaret 23, Milliner Dressmaker born Dublin is at home.
RG9; Piece: 2731; Folio: 122; Page: 35

The occupations aren't the same as Clerk, but then they aren't the same between the 10 year span either.

Hmm Interesting lady

I'm curious about first hubby was it John Whatham who she married st Liverpool St John in 1852? what happened to him.. can't see a death is he the one age 17 in 1841 born Ireland?

Why did she live in sin for 2 years.. was John alive at that time? did he ever die
sorry Hilary just curious

Simone x

To be honest Simone I've no idea - the lady appeared last night and just kept coming 5 husbands indeed.

The one in Ffestiniog left a will - she was the sole executrix!

I'll look into John Whitham

She's not even related just fascinating! Maybe she and Henry got together in Liverpool and ran away to London because she was pregnant.

Yes that's her first marriage - maybe he died at sea or maybe she's a bigamist. Her father does appear to have been the witness at her second marriage would he condone a bigamist? The first child died before the marriage.

A Black Widow perchance? What happened to her first husband?

Take your pick....
Deaths Dec 1862> WHATHAM, John James - Liverpool - 8b - 179.
Deaths Mar 1864> WHATHAM, John - W.Derby - 8b - 473.

I reckon her marriage to Henry D was possibly bigamous, hence the location in London. Interesting story!

DS

I wonder if this is the hubby who got away?

ELLIS, Robert - Head - Widower - 67 - 1834 - Stone Mason - Cerrig, Denbighshire.
2, Bryndedwydd, Cerrig Y Druidion (Denbigh), County: Merionethshire.
RG number: RG13 / Piece:5246 / Folio:29 / Page:12

Pre-deceased by Sarah..
Death: ELLIS, Sarah
Registration District: Holywell, Flintshire; Year/qtr of Registration: 1897 / Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death: 58.
Volume No: 11B; Page No: 157.
Holywell is close to Denbigh and perhaps she died in hospital there?

Or did he push her off a cliff....?
Death: ELLIS, Sarah
Registration District: Aberystwyth, Cardiganshire; Year/qtr of Registration: 1895 / Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death: 57
Volume No: 11B; Page No: 51.

DS

I don't know if this is of help but I think this is Sarah

RG No Piece Folio Page
HO107 2190 300 23

TUCKER Family

Edward m 45 1806 Porter Cork
Hannah m 43 1808 Seamstress Glasgow
Sarah 21 1830 Dressmaker Dublin
Edward 18 1833 Painter Dublin
Margaret 14 1837 Dublin
Samuel 12 1839 Dublin

Little Woolton Street West Derby Liverpool

Yappie

Sarah's marriage

Sarah Tucker 23 / John Whatham 28 Mariner 29/06/1852 St Johns Old Haymarket
Fathers John Whatham Bootmaker & Edward Tucker Bookkeeper.

The records is on the Liverpool Parish Records.

Yappie