Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi All

This may appear a basic question, but I don't know the answer!!

I know who all my great great aunts and uncles were on my mums mums side, and have recently met up with and got to know one of their sons who is now 89. Unfortunately due to religious differences the family was divided and so my new found relation didn't know his Aunts and Uncles or whether he had any cousins.

I would love to find out if he has any cousins out there as he is the last remaining sibling in his family. So.........how do I find out whether my great great aunts and uncles had any children please? I can possible trace their marriages through marriage register but after that I am stumped. All ideas greatly appreciated. Thank you time is of the essence.

If the marriage took place before 1912 then LancashireBMD.org matches up the spouses to each other, after that the indexes themselves give both surnames. Double checking the families in the censuses sometimes helps to confirm as there might be a parent living with the family.

Then on to the birth indexes and search for a period of about three months after the marriage date to about 20 years after, for the surname with a mother's surname matching up. If you find any entries in the right area you probably have the right matches.

Then you need to do the same for each child from the marriage, from approximately 17 years after their birth, also double checking the death indexes, hopefully here a date of birth will help pinpoint any.

If we can help, please post the details and we can try, without mentioning any possible living people.

We have also put together a few hints http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=8154 about tracing a living relative.

If they were married and had children after 1911 the maiden names of the mothers will be given on the birth registration. You can access this through Ancestry. By filling in the married and maiden names you could come up with some of the children. Hope this is clear - I'm sure more experienced 'searchers' could put it better but hope this is of some help!
Barbara
PS you just beat me to it, Mary and much better than me!

Trouble is not everybody has either Ancestry or Findmypast and if they were to use the indexes on a microfiche machine at a Record Office it would be a very long job. FreeBMD and LancashireBMD are a godsend but obviously aren't complete.

Thank you everybody for your super speedy replies. I do have genes reunited, so will have a go and do as best I can with two littlies off school!!
Ancestors were:

Frederick Garland 1874
Robert Garland 1875
Mary Garland 1877
Helen Garland 1879
Wilfred Garland 1880
Winifred Garland 1882
Harold Garland 1885
Austin Garland 1887 (an artist - know he didn't have children)

There was also Cuthbert who had a daughter who was my gran but she died age 35, and another brother who was my new relatives dad. Would love to know if any of the above had any children and may still be living?

sorry, - all west derby and old swan as far as I know

Hi Trix,, welcome

just as an example and not a definite, but there is a possible marriage for Frederick on Lancs BMD site in the March q of 1903

GARLAND Frederick
MCGRATH Josephine
West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool
REG_WD/204/186

then using both surnames on a search on www.freebmd.org.uk ther is a birth of a Hugh Garland in Jun q 1915 Liverpool district.

coukd be more children before 1911 though but mothers maiden name woud not be recorded on index for those

unfortunately no lookup possible on this marriage as register office or registrar attended, so would mean sending for the certificate

i'm sure one of the crew will help further.. my subs to Anc have just expired

Simone x

simone wrote: more children before 1911 though

This is where the 1911 census comes in of course.

Hope you had a good time Simone.

Yes thanks Mary.. all over toooooo soon

no subs at present... frustrating when you are without isn't it

Simone x

Trix there is a possibility that if any marriages took place in Liverpool we may have access to the registers on Ancestry, but to confirm the one found on LancsBMD by Simone we would need the father's name and occupation, and the area where they were living would be useful, which I suspect you have.

Assuming that Cuthbert was married to Margaret De Johns on 3rd October 1912 in St Oswalds. His address was 10 Barrymore Road and his father was Frederick. One of the witnesses was Robert Garland. So the area would seem to be Old Swan, which you said.

Yes Mary, that is correct

.......and therein lies another mystery. I can find no birth for Margaret De Johns (my mums Gran) that ties in with her age on the marriage certificate to Cuthbert Garland. She had a sister Clarice Johns who i can't find a birth record of either. Don't know where they were from, though my mum seems to think it was birkenhead. Clarice married George Bennison. There is a family that has a Maggie Jones and Clarice Jones in Birkenhead so this might be them, but still doesn't tie with her age on marriage certificate AARRRGGGHHHHH!!!! This has driven me insane for over a year!!

I suppose this is the difficulty I am having. The 1911 census would tell me much more, but it's a lot of money
I have tried to search for a marriage for Hugh or death but not found one.

ooooooo hang on a minute, guess there's always the concept he could still be alive!!!!

Hello Trix,
It might help the crew if they see the Garland family in 1891. The eldest son, Frederick, isn't at the family home.

GARLAND, Frederick W - Head - Married - 41 - Certificated Art Master - Waberthwaite, Cumberland.
GARLAND, Mary - Wife - 40 - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Robert V - Son - 16 - Shop Boy - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Mary T - Dtr - 14 - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Helen - Dtr - 12 - Scholar - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Wilfred - Son - 11 - Scholar - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Winifred - Dtr - 9 - Scholar - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Hubert - Son - 8 - Scholar - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Harold - Son - 6 - Scholar - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Austin - Son - 4 - Scholar - Liverpool.
GARLAND, Cuthbert - Son - 1 - Old Swan, Lancashire.
Address: 72 Hankinson Street, Wavertree, Lancashire.
RG12 / Piece:3002 / Folio:138 / Page:48.

Anyone find Frederick bn abt 1874 in the 1891? These are the only births 1872-77:
Births Dec 1872> GARLAND, Frederick - W.Derby - 8b - 546.
Births Dec 1873> Garland, Frederick Cecil - Liverpool - 8b - 154.
He is in the 1881 with his parents.

DS

Perhaps I've got the Frederick bit wrong? There is one born 1875 Birkenhead on 1881 census. will keep searching....must have got it from somewhere LOL!!!

aha.....if you search for Mary Garland (Frederick Seniors wife) on the 1881 census, she appears with her husband Fred Garland and son Fred Garland born 1874 living at 9 Stafford Terrace, West Derby.

Just noticed some other exciting info on this too that I've not seen before...a grandfather and Aunt are on it too!!!!!! This is sooooo cool, and so addictive!!!

Hi Trix,
One of the reasons I posted the entire family from 1891 [less Frederick of course] was to find YoBs for their names. While we can usually follow their 'progress' via the 1901 and 1911 census, having the YoB enables us to eliminate possible deaths before the last census in 1911, and thus save fruitless searches for marriages. You should also check each birth to see if there is a second forename or initial.

The Garland family had 10 children and the chances of there being living descendants is a very good one.

In the last census Mary Garland is a widow and is living with Winifred, Harold J, Austin, and Cuthbert, all 4 are single. So between 1901 and 191* Hubert/Herbert and Wilfred have left the nest; and Frederick, Robert V, Mary T and Helen had gone before 1901. Gives time spans for possible marriages.

Finally, for now at least, re:

I know who all my great great aunts and uncles were on my mums mums side, and have recently met up with and got to know one of their sons who is now 89.

What is the name of this son and his parents so we can link him back to the family?

DS

Frederick and Mary's childrens' baptism are shown on Ancestry as taking place at St Oswald RC. Mary's maiden name is given as Spears or Speers but I can't find a marriage!!!

Winifred Garland was buried on 12 March 1908 at Ford Cemetery aged 26 years.