Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Can anyone find an RC baptism for Catherine Ryan born in Liverpool in 1876 to Richard and Ellen Ryan?

Blue

Hi Blue

The only baptism I found was for Catharina Ryan born 18th May 1876 and baptised 21st May 1876 at St Sylvester. But the parents names are Richard Ryan and Elizabeth Ryan ( Dorney), not Ellen.

Any help?

Cheers
Erika

Thanks Erika. I think that must be another family. I was trying to find out the mother's surname as they were not long arrivals from Ireland. This Richard and Ellen had a Catherine and a James born in Liverpool but neither seem to be on the RC baptisms. Not on the C of E either.

Blue

This is a weird one! It could be the right baptism after all. I think this family came from County Wexford because there is a matching Richard Ryan on the 1911 Census from County Wexford. Here is this family on the 1881 Census with two children born in Ireland and two in Liverpool:-

https://www.familysearch.org/search/rec ... 0313143374

There are records on Family Search that are a close match for this family but the mother's name is Catherine Dorney not Ellen or Elizabeth. Their marriage is at Wexford in 1870 Volume 14 Page 473. The two children born in Ireland are also a good match. Mary Ryan born Wexford 16/8/1871 and Matthew Ryan born 28/8/1872.

Blue

Oooh these Wexford ladies, always good fibbers!!! I would bet it's the right one

Same family living at 78 Tatlock Street in 1891 census
Mary had left

Maybe Ellen, Elizabeth, Catherine were all her names and she swapped them around


Cheers
Erika

Thanks Erika. Yes probably born with a combination of two of the names and she adopted another as a spare

Blue

This is odd

On the 1901 Census there is a Richard Ryan b.abt 1846 Ireland a dock labourer, widower , father in law.
William Hartley 34
Catherine Hartley 28
Thomas Hartley 10 months

RG13 Piece 3411 Folio 111 Page 48.

Then there is
Ellen Ryan age 45 b. abt 1856 Ireland, mother in law, widow
William Walsh 39 b. Ireland
Mary Walsh 26 b. Ireland
Gladys Walsh 10 b. India
Edith Walsh 8 b. Hounslow
Senora Walsh 7 b. Ireland
Afra Walsh 1 b. Liverpool
Sheila Walsh 3 months b. Liverpool

RG13 Piece 3500 Folio 24 Page 39

Could these be the parents each living with a married daughter and pretending to be widowed!

The Walsh family seems a little odd, birthplaces and ages, but we allknow how muddled family history is

Have you any marriages for the girls?

Cheers
Erika

Hi Erika

I think the Richard is right Ellen must have died. He's still a Widower on the 1911 Census in the West Derby Workhouse. The daughter Mary was a Cullerton the 1911 Census clinches it with the Wexford birthplace:-

https://www.familysearch.org/search/rec ... 0372713752


Blue

Hi Blue

Did another little bit of digging for Ellen's death.

Could this be her?

June qtr 1900, Liverpool 8b 8 age 44

Burial at Ford Cemetery on 19 Apr 1900 Liverpool Coroner Grave B 2822

Thought the Liverpool Coroner bit looked interesting.

Cheers
Erika

Thanks Erika. I think I'll be making a trip to the library to look through The Liverpool Mercury for a possible unfortunate death.

Blue

Doesn't the Liverpool Library card give you access to the old newspapers? The Liverpool Mercury seems to be covered for the date in question although I can't see any entries for Ryan. You can just browse if you wanted to spend more time looking.

Thanks Mary. My library card does give me home access by entering the LVP number from the bar code. I feel soft now all those times I went to the library just to look at the 19th Century newspapers. I can't see any sign of Ellen Ryan either.

Blue

I believe there are copies of Inquests on microfilm at the World Museum, it might be worth trying them, perhaps it just wasn't recorded in the newspaper. There are also other newspapers to check while you are there that aren't available online, so often it's well worth your visit.