Can anyone help to transcribe this marriage St Joseph's RC

Post by **42aitch** » 17 Jul 2011 20:49

Can anyone help to read the above, especially the addresses. I think the spouses are Patrick Cunningham and Elizabeth Mc Donald.

Eileen

Post by **MaryA** » 17 Jul 2011 21:52

Well my guess is
Patricum Cunningham of 48 Harison Street, perhaps Hareson?
parents Michaelem and Mariam Cunningham and Elizabeth McDonald of 2 Yether or Yetha Street parents Alexander and Margaratian could that be Golden?
Witnesses Stephanus Rider? of 48 Harison St and Catherine Cunningham of Harison Street.

Sorry I can't find anything like those streets mentioned in early censuses.

Post by **MaryA** » 17 Jul 2011 22:09

Might be worth checking out - 1871 has a Harrison Street at references RG 10/3767 149 and RG 10/3768 25-29 and 1861 has RG 9/2660 85-86, 123-124, 128-132 and also Courts at RG 9/2660 128, 131

I can't make any sense out of the Yetha/Yether.

Post by **MaryA** » 17 Jul 2011 22:28

Did Patrick have a brother Michael?

There is a Michael 27 Labourer and Margaret Ann 24, with lodgers William and Mary A Peake and their son William at 30 Harrison Street, Howard Street district in 1871 RG10; Piece: 3768; Folio: 27; Page: 45.

and at 48 Harrison Street there is a
Luke Ryder 57 Clothes Dealer and wife Bridget 51, both from Ireland, with lodgers, James O'Neil and John McDermot.
These could be the parents of the witness?

Yes I think it might be - 1861 has at 44 Harrison Street - Luke and Bridget Ryder with children Cicely, Margaret, Stephen and Edward, plus boarders.
RG9; Piece: 2660; Folio: 131; Page: 8

Post by **erika** » 17 Jul 2011 22:33

In the 1860 directory there is a Harrison Street Marybone listed, but it doesn't give occupants and there is no Cunningham listed in Harrison Street.

Can't decipher the other one tho'

Cheers
Erika

Post by **MaryA** » 17 Jul 2011 22:36

Probably if they were labourers they may not have been listed in the directory, what a shame

It would seem, from the Enumerator's walk that Harrison Street would be close to Fontenoy Street and Sawney Pope Street, but I haven't been able to find it on any maps.

Post by **erika** » 17 Jul 2011 22:44

Any idea where the Marybone area was, maybe able to locate the other street nearby?

Cheers
Erika

Post by **MaryA** » 17 Jul 2011 22:49

Where the BananaLamb is now!!!

Around about where Tithebarn Street meets Vauxhall Road seems to be known as Marybone now, lots of the new University buildings around there.

Post by **erika** » 17 Jul 2011 22:56

`Think Daggers has some old maps, hope he can pick up this thread and sort it out

Have looked through numerous possibilities, but nothing remotely like it beginning with Y.

Have found the marriage entry on A***** and tried to compare writing and letters but no luck. Think the eyes have had it for tonight

Cheers
Erika

Post by **MaryA** » 17 Jul 2011 22:58

Fontenoy Street to Tithebarn Streetzoom in to see the BananaLamb.

and Marybone is the road leading from one to the other!!

Post by **42aitch** » 17 Jul 2011 23:37

Gosh you have been busy. Mary I too thought Hareson or Harrison Street for Patrick. The nearest I could get for the other was maybe Tether Street? I have looked at a couple of old maps but couldn't find anything resembling this.

I think you have cracked the Harrison Street address though especially finding the Ryder family at number 48.

I hadn't found Patrick's family but he named one of his sons Michael so that could be a brother at #30.

Elizabeth's mothers maiden name is also unclear and like you I though Golden but haven't been able to find any marriage, but they could well have married in Ireland.

Thanks to all for your help, hopefully I will be able to take this further now.

Eileen

Post by **Blue70** » 18 Jul 2011 00:05

This map shows Marybone, Harrison Street & Fontenoy Street:-

Blue

Post by **daggers** » 18 Jul 2011 09:05

If St Joseph's was the one in Grosvenor Street, the bride's address must have been close by if she lived in the parish area. Her address seems to start with a 'T' rather than 'Y'.
Grosvenor Street was the extension, to the north, of Rose Hill, in the area between Scotland Road, Cazneau Street, Juvenal Street and Rose Place.

I do not have a detailed map for the 1860s but the Godfrey edition of the 1908 OS map shows the church. I cannot see any street name nearby that looks anything like the image of Elizabeth's address in the register.

Any chance of seeing more of the page, where there might be more letters to compare with?
Daggers

Post by **MaryA** » 18 Jul 2011 13:21

Unfortunately it may be that you will have to eventually purchase the GRO certificate just to get Elizabeth's parents names. The writing might be better on that certificate

Page for comparison, tried to get a better copy

Post by **Blue70** » 18 Jul 2011 13:47

This RC marriage will also be available at Liverpool History Projects it might be interesting to see their transcription of this record.

Blue

Post by **MaryA** » 18 Jul 2011 13:53

I'm not convinced it's a T as in Thomas in the 4th one down. added although it is possibly the same as Tiernan on the same entry.

it might be interesting to see their transcription of this record.

Well it would be cheaper than a GRO copy but they would only be reading the same handwriting. As an RC marriage a Registrar would have had to attend the ceremony and hopefully the Register would have been completed by him. This priest doesn't seem to be as literate as some or he would have spelled "Harrison" correctly.

Post by **Blue70** » 18 Jul 2011 17:01

Our friend at LHP has lots of experience of transcribing these records if anyone can make sense of it she can. I would be tempted to give it a go if it was me.

Blue

Post by **daggers** » 18 Jul 2011 17:24

In entry #49 the bride's address has a similar capital, though with an apparent crossbar like a copperplate 'F'. I think this must be for 'Torbock Street', in the Godfrey edition of 1906, between Soho St and Wakefield St, east of Cazneau St. Torbock St is not a misprint for TArbock, as it appears like this in my late 1930s map.
I agree that the officiating priest does not help us at all.
I was taught copperplate writing aeons ago, with the old copy books, and it did not make reading bad writing any easier!
I would still go for a road starting with T, but have nothing to offer yet.
D

ADDED
Back to the original street name: my best guess is that the priest started to write Tithebarn and petered out before reaching the barn. Could this tie in with any census info?
D

Post by **MaryA** » 18 Jul 2011 20:39

daggers wrote: my best guess is that the priest started to write Tithebarn and petered out before reaching the barn. Could this tie in with any census info?
D

Well that was in my mind, glad you suggested it as I was hesitant.

Don't know about the family in the census since we aren't too sure quite what the surname is.

Post by **42aitch** » 18 Jul 2011 22:50

You will never believe what the address is! Someone was close when they said it could begin with an F.

It is Feather Street - and the parents of Elizabeth are McDonald. The original does not give the mother's maiden name so still guessing on that.

Patrick was a Porter and his father Michael was a Ships Carpenter.

Alexander was a Tailor. -

No ages on the original.

Thanks for all your input, you got everything else right.

Give yourselves a pat on the back and a Gold star

Eileen