Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Have seen from 1871,81 and 91 census my family of Lewis's was living in the Godfrey street, Breckfield but I lose track of them after that. My great great grandmother Charlotte Lewis ends up in Rainhill hospital in 1901 but her children,bar my great grandmother Honor Lewis, are proving difficult to find.
Her children were Robert born 1871,Isabella born 1870, Elizabeth born 1876, John born 1864, Mary Anne 1850,Eleanor born 1855 -

Does anyone know of these people?

Thanks

Can you give the full details from the 1891 census please, ensuring that details of the father is included, if he isn't there then do you have him on an earlier census? His name and occupation are useful in case we are able to find any marriages.

The date of Honor's marriage, who to, the address and father's name and occupation might also prove useful.

Hi Mary
Only Charlotte & 3 kiddies in 1891
In 1881 Godfrey St Everton
John is 48 bn Lpool labr
Charlotte 49 charwoman bn Manchester
Isabella M (Margaret) 11, Robert 9, Betsy 5.
Back soon with 1861

Tina

1861 Skelhorn St (gosh what memories I have of catching buses there)
John Lewis 29 cotton porter bn Lpl
Charlotte 27 bn Manchester
Mary Ann 11 Hellen 7, Hannah 5 weeks.
Seems a big gap here between kiddies?

Tina

1871 census
30 Godfrey St Everton
John 39 warehouseman bn Lpl
Charlotte 40 bn Manchester
Elinor 15 laundress, Hannah 11, Isabella 1yr
(another big age gap)

Tina

So was your "Honor" the Honoria Lewis/Moran who married John Crook in Manchester in 1870? If so it either took place in a Register Office or the Registrar attended which might give a clue as to the religion of the churches they might have married in.

PS - this marriage seems a bit unlikely.

My great grandmother honor married Charles O'neill around 1881/2 havent been able to find their marriage cert at all. Her father John Lewis died between 1881 and 1891 census.Cant find marriage certs for other kids and they seem to disappear after the 1891 census, posssibly left the country? Charlotte dies in 1903- Prescot certificate.dont at ths time know where she is buried

Hi,
Can you post the census summary page reference for the first census this couple appear in as 'Head and wife'? The reference will be something akin to RG 12 / Piece 2997 / Folio ?? / Page ??

DS

Please could you post the details from Honor's birth certificate date of birth, place parent's name etc. At the moment cannot find her on any census, nor can I find her death in 1903.

Could you post the details from her death certificate as well?

John Lewis/Charlotte Lewis 1861 census RG 9/2690 folio 41 page34

Charles O'Neill/ Honor(Annie)O'Neill - 1891 census head and wife RG12/2994 Folio 90 page 32

Honor died in 1916 amdf her mother in 1903

Have you checked for both of them on the 1911 census, if Charles is still living "Annie" should give the numbers of years she has been married which might help you in your search.

I am confused.

Can you please tell us how you have related your "Annie" to the family in Godfrey Street. Tina has given details from three censuses, either Annie or Honor should be noted on at least one if not two of them. Have you found her living away from the family?

I'm totally confused.

Honor isn't really Honor she's Annie living with Charles and has children David , James and Edith? If I've got that right do you have the birth certificate for one of the children? If yes what is given as the mother's name on it. If no how do you know they are the correct family? What name does she die under and do you have that death certificate?

I think I need to lie down!!!

I had a dabble in 19@@ for O'Neill, it's a rotter of a surname.
Tried it joined together, with a space, poss David & James.
Used the apostrophe again no good.
Cant find Chas bn Ireland, Annie/Honour bn 1870 and no Edith.
There are too many marriage for the Lewis girls, Betsy & Isabella M.

In 19@@ there is an Anne O space Neill correct age in W Dby and a death in 1916 right age for Ann E O'Neill.
In the free index I could only find her with one Catherine Lucy.
Sorry of no help.

Tina

I know where the Honor comes from ....

Catholic Baptisms
St Nicholas Church Birth 21 February, 1861 - Baptism 28 February 1861
Honor Lewis, child of Joannis et Charlotte Lewis (nee Galway)
Godmother Maria O'Brien

Elizabeth's 11 Mar 1859 - 2 May 1859 and
John's 5 Jun 1864 - 16 Jun 1864

are also there Charlotte's name spelt Caloway for John's, no maiden name given for Elizabeth's.

It still doesn't explain why she's not seen on any of the censuses.

Added Oooh I am a doofus - she's Hannah isn't she! - age 5 weeks in the 1861 census!

But not too sure what name her birth is registered under.

I am going to try and put everyone out of their misery- Honor is Hannah/Annie she was born 21 feb 1861- on the 1861 census as Hannah- her mother is charlotte Galloway (this name is then mispelt on succeding census as Galmoy-Calloway or Galway). she hasnt used honor since her birth on any certs I can find, but I know it is right as i have seen her grave stone which states that her name was Honor.
She is listed as a domestic servant on the 1881 census in Queens Road Liverpool and assuming that there are not two Annie Lewis living in close proximity this address is about 200 to 300 yards away from where the rest of the family are listed in Godfrey Street - I dont think it is an unreasonable assumption.
I have trawled all the sites and I cannot find a marriage cert round 1881 as on the 1891 census their first child David is listed as 9yrs therefore born in or around 1881/2. He later is baptised at 5 yrs old into the Catholic faith therefore i an assuming that one of my great grandparents was Catholic and the other protestant (mixed marriages were not accepted socially then) or they were never married or the cert hasnt been registered for some reason.Also I cannot find any birth cert for David O'Neill

If you read my message before your last you will see that Honor was baptised Catholic, however David being baptised five years after birth does not sit right. It might be that she didn't feel she could have a baptism for a child if the mother wasn't married.

If you are assuming that one of them, Charles presumably, was NOT Catholic, it would make sense that he also converted in order to marry Annie. Have you looked for an adult baptism for him?

Have you also asked either the Liverpool Register Office or the GRO to check for either a David O'Neill or a David Lewis birth on 14th June, 1882, mother Annie?

Sorry none of these are answers in themselves, but I hope I have made some suggestions that you could follow and maybe the results will rule out or confirm some lines of enquiry.