Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Have already had invaluable help from some of your members.

Can anyone shed any light on descendants of Wm Pickles Hartely - my great grandma was Ellen Hartely born circa 1867. Father Jackson Hartely labourer of Summer St (she married John Kilroy in 1888 at St Nicholas Church (I suspect in Bootle - his father was also John Kilroy a coachman also at Summer Street.)

Family legend has it that we are directly related to founder of jam factory and philanthropist WP Hartley.

Apparently my grandfather received some sort of payment as a child (in the twenties??) for the "childrens children"

My mum (age 81) is intrigued by this and i would appreciate any thoughts/comments. thank you

Hi Mojo
is this your gt gran in 1871 at Raleigh st Bootle

Jackson Smith Hardey 42 labourer b Keighley Yourkshire
Elizabeth Hardey 30
William James Hartley 11
Martha Ann Hartley 9
Ellen Hartley 5
John Hartley 2


1861
RG9; Piece: 2705; Folio: 46; Page: 24
at 213 Upper Mann Street, Toxteth Park
Jackson S Hartley 32 b Yorkshire, Police officer
Elizabeth Hartley 20 b Scotland
William Jas Hartley 1

1881 Dun st one I think you already have?
RG11; Piece: 3690; Folio: 93; Page: 58
Jackson Hartly 53 labourer b Yorkshire
Eliza Hartly 41
Martha Hartly 19
Ellen Hartly 16
John Hartly 7
Jesse Hartly 12
Emmley Hartley 4
Margaret Hartley 11

in 1841 Jackson does have a brother William Pickles Hartley but too old I think to be the one you are looking for.

1841
at Bassenthwaite Hamlet, Yorkshire
HO107; Piece 1317; Book: 9
William Hartley 40 farmer
Margaret Hartley 35
Richard Steel Hartley 15
Judith Steel Hartley 14
Jackson Smith Hartley 13
William Pickles Hartley 11
John Gill Hartley 6
Martha Ann Hartley 4

The jam William was born 1846

http://www.hartleyfamily.org.uk/Fame2SZ.htm

says that he was the only surviving child of his parents. Perhaps the connection come down another way

Simone

wow simone - so much info - will check and get back to you - very kind of you to look this up. M

Great stuff Simmo well done!
Not sure if this is the right family 1901 boarding in Bootle
John Kilroy 38 bn Galway Ellen 31, Wm 7
RG13/3459/101/37

Tina

I've tried and tried to find these people in 1891 census
Cracked it, they are listed as RILROY..
John 32 seaman bn GALLOWAY
Ellen 24 bn Lpool
Grocers shop 260 Derby Rd Bootle
Looks like a lot of boarders.
Error sent to Anc## for surname

Tina

well done Tina 'Rilroy'

I can;t see Jackson in 1851 will have another look.. probably right under my nose somewhere

Simone x

Hi Mojo

Jackson Smith Hartley

Age: Full Age
Marriage Date:
3 Jul 1858
Parish Walton On The Hill St Thomas
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Dodds, spinster, 36 Hampdon Street
Father's name: William Hartley, Farmer
Spouse Father's Name:
James Dodd, labourer

marriage states Jackson is a Police officer, 191 Grafton Street

witnesses are Jane Naylor?
and John? can't read surname

can't get image on to here, so if you want me to email it send a pm with your email address

Well done girls, great findings. That surname always makes me smile, there used to be graffiti everywhere stating that "Kilroy wuz ere", don't see it so much nowadays.

I think this is Jackson's father in 1861
Brunsthwaite Sildwick Silsden Yorkshire
Sarah Ann Hartley H M 29 farmer of 20 acres bn Northampton
William Hartley son 3 bn Liverpool
Margaret Elizabeth daur 1 bn Liverpool
Rebecca Midgeley servant 11
Sarah Ann Hartley sister in law weaver 24 bn Brunsthwaite
William Hartley father in law wid 62 ag lab bn Keighley

Richard S Hartley maried Sarah A White 1852 at Edge Hill St Mary according to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

Father William in 1851
Town Head Brunthwaite Kildwick Silsden
William Hartley H wid 50 farmer of 20a bn Keighley
Judith daur 24 bn Keighley
Martha Ann daur 14 bn Keighley
James son 9 bn Brunthwaite
Elizabeth Barker lodger U 24 power loom weaver bn Brunthwaite

William's wife Margaret must have died between 1841 and 1851. In the 1851 census Richard is a Police Officer and in 1861 an officer with HM Customs.

From www.familysearch.org

Jackson Smith Hartley christened 22 March 1828 at Silsden parents William and Margaret

William Hartley married Margaret Steel 10 May 1824 at Kildwick (elder child was Richard Steel Hartley)

MaryA wrote:Well done girls, great findings. That surname always makes me smile, there used to be graffiti everywhere stating that "Kilroy wuz ere", don't see it so much nowadays.

Slightly off-topic but.... "Kilroy was here"?
Oh the memories..... for those too young to remember here's a link to tell you what you missed. Incidentally the Brit version was usually Chad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilroy_was_here#_note-1




DS

Thanks Mary for prompting the memories and to Dickiesam for great pics.

Tina

Hi Mojo Just for the History record

Sir William Pickles Hartley, founder of the jam was born in Colne Lancs
1846 and d 1922. Son of John a whitesmith & Margaret.
Here he is in 1891 in Long Lane Aintree
Wm P.H 45 marmalade manuf bn Colne
Martha O'Connor Hartley wife 48 bn Colne
Pollie 21, Christiana 18 (she became Mayor of Southport)
Martha 8, Constance Beatrice 6.
He was a Primitive Methodist
Just joshing, his list of achievements for the community is amazing.
If you Google, you'll be there for hours. Wonderful man.

1871 he's in Colne, married a wholesale drysalter

He's in Southport in 1881 employing 120 women & 30 men.

1901 he's in Hartley Village (never knew about this place) Fazackerley
preserve manuf with wife and 4 unmarried daughters.

His name was ringing other bells for me, he was one of the people who were instrumental in moving Everton F.C to Goodison Park.
Won't bore you any more
I'm off to find his Uncle Richard who came to Qld in 1860.
Not sure how to find the connection to your Hartley's.

Tina

was trying to get the link between Yorkshire and Lancashire thinking it may have come through grandparents, g granparents maybe

In 1861 the jam maker William is listed with his parents on the 1861
RG9; Piece: 3080; Folio: 72; Page: 7
John Hartley 36 b colne, lancs, whitesmith
Margaret Hartley 36 b colne, lancs
William P Hartley 15 b colne, grocer
John Pickles 68 b Yorkshire, Cowlinghead, cotton & worstead weaver

cowling, keighley, kildwick, colne all within minutes of each other

that makes the link the wrong way would have thought we need through the Hartley line... maybe there are somemore Hartley/Pickles marriages somewhere to make it fit right just know that it is me getting in a pickle

of course I suppose that the name of Jackson's brother being William Pickles too could be coincidence and because that name was in the family it has been assumed and passed through the family that he is the same as the jam man maybe

Simone x

Simmo
We are nearly there mate.
Good find 1861 in Yorks, young Wm already a grocer

Margaret Pickles married John Hartley in Colne 1845 freebmd
You found another marriage at the same place same year
of Nancy Pickles to Joseph Hartley at St Barts in Lancs BMD.
There's a cast of thousands of Pickles who married at the church

Tina

Remember Christiana from previous page?
There's a Christiana Lister who married a William Hartley.
and she was born in Colne 1792c.

Tina

yes Tina have a look at this link.. it gives a lot of census etc.. William and Christiana were William P's grandparents

http://www.hartleyfamily.org.uk/Fame2SZ.htm

the Hartley's were originally farmers, like Jackson's father just can't get that link yet

hmm a pickle indeed may be clutching at straws here but set about looking for birth of William Hartley b c 1801, Keighley (father to Jackson) found a baptism at Keighley to John Hartley and Martha Midgely, birth10/10/1799, bapt 8 nov 1799.. then did a batch search and found Kister Hartley to same parents, birth 1/8/1801, baptism 16/8/1801.. couldn't find more about Kister but assumed it could be a mistranscription and should be Lister maybe, (thought there may be a link re the Lister family through Christiana's folks)
However then found a possible marriage for Lister Hartley in 1839 Colne to Ann Aiken 23 nov 1813, at Colne, an extracted entry that states father as John. could this be the Yorkshire Kister/Lister moved over to Colne.

nb - William and Christiana also had a son Lister Hartley b c 1822, and thought it may be his marriage but it does state father as John not William.

still not there with actual link though if there is a link at all I reckon it may be buried quite deep

got to go out now.. might clear my head a bit lots of maybe's so could be hard to find

Simone x

Well done Simmo, a lot to read, great clues mate.

Tina x