Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Per 1911 census, Frank Young was born in Liverpool. He married in 1914
to Amelia Bell. A son, Frank Young was born in 1915 (West Derby). He was my wife's father. Alice Young was born in 1916, also in West Derby and could be Frank's sister. I can't find any other children with the Young surname born in West Derby but it is possible that the family moved.

The address on Frank (junior) birth certificate is 39 Barnet Street.
I will be very gratefull to find out details of decendants of Frank Young senior.
Frank Young junior moved and married in Cornwall after the second world war and did not keep in touch or talk about his Liverpool family.

Hi and welcome to our forum.

If you haven't already got it I suggest you get the marriage certificate of Frank Young to Amelia Bell. This will give the couples' father's names and make it possible to look for their siblings.

I presume the suggested date of birth for Frank is taken from the 1911 census. Where was he leaving then, where was he born and was he living with parents?

Hi and welcome!

If you have the 1914 marriage cert for the Frank bn 1892, can you post his age at marriage and his father's name and occupation. Would help finding Frank in the 1901 census as a starting point particularly as he may have been Francis as in his son's birth.

There are two possible Francis/Frank Youngs bn abt 1892 in Liverpool. Francis has parents Francis and Ann jane. The other, Frank, has parents William and Alice. That one looks promising if he named a child after his mother.

Marriages Mar 1914: Bell, Amelia to Young, Frank - Liverpool - 8b - 43.

These are the Young nee Bell births 1912 to 1925 in the Liverpool area:
YOUNG, Francis - West Derby, Lancs - 1915 - Jan-Feb-Mar.
YOUNG, Francis - West Derby, Lancs - 1916 - Jan-Feb-Mar.
YOUNG, Alice - West Derby, Lancs - 1916 - Apr-May-Jun.

I am assuming the 1916 birth is a different Young/Bell marriage, if the 1915 birth is your man, and the birth is too close to Alice anyway.

Dickiesam

Hi and welcome to the forum.

This is a question we are often asked and we have put together a few suggestions to help here http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=8154

Alice Young maiden Bell was rego'd W Dby 2nd qtr
1916.
There are a few more Young/Bell in other areas but too close to Alice's birth.
If you could give us details of your 19## census find for Frank please?
I'm guessing he would be around 19yrs of age??

Tina

Education Officer wrote:Hi and welcome to our forum.

If you haven't already got it I suggest you get the marriage certificate of Frank Young to Amelia Bell. This will give the couples' father's names and make it possible to look for their siblings.

I presume the suggested date of birth for Frank is taken from the 1911 census. Where was he leaving then, where was he born and was he living with parents?

Thank you for your input. The marriage certificate was ordered last week. It will take another two weeks to arrive here in South Africa. I ordered the certificate so that I can be sure of the couples ages and thereby trace and order their death certificates. Hopefully the persons who notified their deaths will be a relation.

Unfortunately the surname Young is quite common in the Liverpool area and their are numerous entries for births 1915 onwards, with the parents names of Young and Bell in the area. Calling for all these birth certificates can be quite expensive but I gather that there is no shorter way.

In 1911, Frank Young senior (born in Liverpool) was living at 22 Vine Street Liverpool with parents and 7 siblings (4 sisters and three brothers).

dickiesam wrote:Hi and welcome!

If you have the 1914 marriage cert for the Frank bn 1892, can you post his age at marriage and his father's name and occupation. Would help finding Frank in the 1901 census as a starting point particularly as he may have been Francis as in his son's birth.

There are two possible Francis/Frank Youngs bn abt 1892 in Liverpool. Francis has parents Francis and Ann jane. The other, Frank, has parents William and Alice. That one looks promising if he named a child after his mother.

Marriages Mar 1914: Bell, Amelia to Young, Frank - Liverpool - 8b - 43.

These are the Young nee Bell births 1912 to 1925 in the Liverpool area:
YOUNG, Francis - West Derby, Lancs - 1915 - Jan-Feb-Mar.
YOUNG, Francis - West Derby, Lancs - 1916 - Jan-Feb-Mar.
YOUNG, Alice - West Derby, Lancs - 1916 - Apr-May-Jun.

I am assuming the 1916 birth is a different Young/Bell marriage, if the 1915 birth is your man, and the birth is too close to Alice anyway.

Dickiesam

Thank you for your input. My reply posted 3.19pm today to another member gives more information. I have 1915 birth certificate which corresponds to my wifes father. I am certain that Alice is a sister of Frank as Alice is also the name of her grandmother. From then on I cannot see any other births in West Derby. Conscription was introduced in 1916 and Frank senior was at an age (24) when he could be called up. If and when he was demobbed, then the family might have moved from West Derby and so anyone of a number of Young / Bell children in the Liverpool area could also be the children of Frank Young senior. I cannot imagine what life was like for Amelia with two infant children and a husband away at war.

MaryA wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum.

This is a question we are often asked and we have put together a few suggestions to help here http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=8154

Thank you. I shall study the web site quoted

Tina wrote:Alice Young maiden Bell was rego'd W Dby 2nd qtr
1916.
There are a few more Young/Bell in other areas but too close to Alice's birth.
If you could give us details of your 19## census find for Frank please?
I'm guessing he would be around 19yrs of age??

Tina

Thank you. My replies today to other members gives details of the 1911 census.

RE:

Unfortunately the surname Young is quite common in the Liverpool area and their are numerous entries for births 1915 onwards, with the parents names of Young and Bell in the area. Calling for all these birth certificates can be quite expensive but I gather that there is no shorter way.

In addition to the 3 Young nee Bell births in Liverpool I listed earlier, there are only 2 others in Lancashire between 1912 and 1930:
YOUNG, Alfred A - Oldham, Lancashire - 1915 - Apr-May-Jun.
YOUNG, Dorothy - Oldham, Lancashire - 1921 - Jul-Aug-Sep.

Given that Alfred Young was born in 1915 in the quarter immediately following that of the birth of your Francis/Frank the parents must be a different couple. And the birth of Dorothy in Oldham is almost certain to be a sister to Alfred. So while a move to another county is a possibility I would say it was unlikely at that time.

The father Frank, whose parents were William and Alice, was a carter by trade, hopefully to be confirmed by the marriage cert. Makes me doubt he would have moved far from his roots and trade contacts at the end of WW1. The most probable move would be to Cheshire, possibly to Birkenhead, on the other side of the River Mersey, but there are no Cheshire births.

From 1912 to 1920 there is a total of 48 Young nee Bell births in England and Wales. From 1921 to 1930 there are 27. It is possible to roughly group theses births into specific Districts by date as probably belonging to the same parents. If you analyse the births in that way, it is improbable that any are to your Frank and Amelia in another county. Do you have any evidence that Frank and Alice [bn 1915 and 1916] had siblings?

Have you been able to find his WW1 military papers among those that survived the Blitz of WW2? There is the strong possibility he followed the 1000s who answered Kitchener's call "Your county needs you" and volunteered. And do you know he actually survived?

Regarding Alice, you should get her birth cert to confirm her as a sister. Her precise date of birth could be useful in identifying a possible death later, even after a marriage.

Dickiesam

Thank you. I cannot fault your logic. My aim is to trace any relatives or friends of Frank Young junior as he married and settled in Cornwall after serving in the Royal Engineers in the second world war. He seldom spoke about his Liverpool life and did not write to anyone there. Basically all we know was that he trained and worked at the Liverpool echo as a compositer.

From what you say, then the relatives would have to come from the descendants of his sister Alice or his uncles and Aunties.

Endless wrote:Thank you. I cannot fault your logic. My aim is to trace any relatives or friends of Frank Young junior as he married and settled in Cornwall after serving in the Royal Engineers in the second world war. He seldom spoke about his Liverpool life and did not write to anyone there. Basically all we know was that he trained and worked at the Liverpool echo as a compositer.

From what you say, then the relatives would have to come from the descendants of his sister Alice or his uncles and Aunties.

Hi,
We can't at present post the content of the 1911 census here because it would be a 3rd party look-up and contrary to the T&Cs of Findmypast. So I suggest it would be simpler for you, as related to a descendant, to post the information from that census for the benefit of the great crew here. Include all the details of Frank senior's parents and siblings; ages, Yobs, occupations, places of birth, etc.

Although tracing people who are possibly still alive is not in the 'orbit' of this forum, the 1911 info would help look back as well as forward.

Dickiesam

Thanks D.S for good advice re 19## census.

Tina