Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

i am trying to find if there are any details on the 1861/71 Censuses for a John Donougher, he shows in1881 living in Hughson Street , Toxteth, Liverpool .

All I know for definite is he was born in Ireland approx 1856 and his Fathers name was Patrick .

Can anyone help please .

Regards

Tony Donoghue

It's very difficult as I would have suspected that being a lodger he may have recently arrived from Ireland.

In 1861 there is a Bridget Donoghue who is an Unmarried 30year old servant and 6 year old John Donoghue, lodger, both born Ireland, living No. 12 Albion Street, Lime Street area, Liverpool RG9; Piece: 2690; Folio: 15; Page: 26

Have you traced John through to the 1911 census to see if he is any more specific about his birthplace?

Who were the witnesses at his marriage and what was his and Patrick's occupations and addresses?

Mary,

Thanks for replying ,I obtained both copies of Marriage/Death Certificates but no trace of a Birth Certificate .

John Married Mary Allen in 1885 at Our Lady of Mount Carmel, Toxteth
the witnesses were Geoffrey Sheridan and Catherine Allen . Patricks occupation was a blacksmith and then deceased .

John died in 1902 at Smithdown Road Workhous .

Regards

Tony

Hi Tony,
I can't find him earlier than the 1881 where he is single and a lodger. Like Mary I suspect he had arrived in Liverpool after the 1871 census on April 2nd.

Dickiesam

If there is still time please speak with any older family members to see if there is the slightest chance of a place in Ireland that has been mentioned in family legends. Some of us have been lucky enough to have even a townland name that has given a small clue to research further and sometimes it has given a good lead.

Hi Tony

I've just searched for a baptism of John Donougher b. 1856 +/- 2 years, father Patrick on http://www.rootsireland.ie/ (result shows various spellings of surname) and come up with eight possibles. Index is free to search, pay to view individual entries. If you're really stuck it's maybe a good starting point.

Ann

Thanks for all replies and help.

I have tried asking older members of the family on the subject but no unfortunately no joy, all I do remember when I was a youngster visiting Killarney County Kerry with my family and my Dad saying he thought his relatives were from the Area, at the time I never persued the issue .

I joined the O'Donoghue Society but no help , I will try the Site mentioned .

Best Wishes

Tony

I was previously informed that a John and Bridget Donoghue lived at No 12 Albion Street , Liverpool 5 on the 1861 Census .

It would be appreciated if anyone could provide any details on the 1871 Census at the same Address .

Regards

Tony Donoghue

Most censuses are not searchable by street names, and indeed our ancestors moved about quite a lot and the chances are that they wouldn't be at the same place ten years later.

The areas such as Liverpool 5, 6 etc. didn't exist then.

I would try to find them if there were more details from the 1861 census ie ages, birthplaces, childrens details, better still reference?

I have looked at a couple of Bridge and Johns without finding the ones in the correct street to find these details, but this is a name that is often mistranscribed or spelt in different ways so could take quite a lot of time without more information.

Hi Tony,
The 1861 shows 2 Albion Streets; one in Everton and the other in the parish of St Simon.
The latter is shown as being in the Lime Street Ward.
Bridget and John are at the St Simon address.
DONOGHUE, Bridget - Servant - Unmarried - 30 - Servant - Ireland.
DONOGHUE, John - Lodger - 6 - Ireland.
RG09 / Piece:2690 / Folio:15 / Page:26.

There's only one Albion Street listed in 1871 and that is the one in Everton.
DAVIES, William - Head - 40 - Estate agent - Caernarvonshire.
DAVIES, Elizabeth - Wife - 31 - Caernarvonshire.
[With 5 children]
Address: 12 Albion Street, Everton, Liverpool.
RG10 / Piece:3816 / Folio:16 / Page:26.

Wondering if the St Simon parish Albion Street was demolished to make way for a Lime Street Station expansion or when the Great North Western Hotel was built? The hotel was completed in 1867.

I recall searching for the St Simon's parish church some time ago....
From http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=41374
In 1841 a congregation which had for some five years met in the chapel in Sir Thomas's Buildings, which they called St. Simon's, acquired a chapel previously used by Presbyterians and Independents, and this was consecrated as St. Simon's. In 1848, the site being required for Lime Street Station, a new church was built close by. This was taken down and rebuilt in its present position in St. Vincent's Street in 1866–72, due to another enlargement of the station.

Dickiesam

Thanks again for replying , I appreciate the lack of details I can provide I am unfortunately using "guess work" as currently I don't know for definite who John's Mother was or what part of Ireland they originated from .

I have joined various Sites but as yet no joy, because Irish information is limited .

Regards

Tony

Duh, it was my post you were referring to above.

Although we don't seem to have any definite idea as to when they came from Ireland, here are a couple of other possible entries in the 1871 census.

6 Cunliffe Street, Dale Street, Liverpool
Patrick McDonough Lodger Unm 30 Tin Plate Worker Ireland
John McDonough Lodger Unm 18 Dock Labourer Ireland
RG10; Piece: 3771; Folio: 61; Page: 13

Although I'm not suggesting the above Patrick is John's father, it's possible that he could be an older brother.

Another in 29 Sawney Pope Street, Howard Street, Liverpool
All born Ireland
Patrick McDonough Head Mar 48 Labr Stonebreader
Mary Wife M 34 Bag seller
John son Unm 17 Lab in Chemical works
Patrick son 14 Messenger
Michael son 11
RG10; Piece: 3768; Folio: 19; Page: 29

I re-read above, you said Patrick's occupation was Blacksmith and then deceased - that sounds like you have details of him from two different dates?

I apologise if I am confusing you ,all I know about Patrick is from a copy of John's Marriage Certificate of 1885 .

I unfortunately don't know for definite when or what County Patrick was was born and if he moved to Liverpool with his son John .

Regards

Tony

Hi, I see from the marriage he was using another 'version' of his surname..
Marriages Sep 1885 - Toxteth Park - 8b - 480.
Allen, Mary and Donaghue, John.

I found a John and Mary Donoghue in 1901 with 7 children but the oldest was born in 1877, so doubt if it is himself. RG13 / 3460 / 32 / 56.

Haven't found them in 1891 yet...

Where did the Donougher variation come in?

Dickiesam

Thanks again, the Donougher version showed on the 1881 Census as living in Hughson Street, Toxteth , Liverpool , as a lodger born in Ireland ? , he was then living a few doors from Mary his future Wife Mary .

John and Mary had four Sons Dennis 1888 ( My Grandad ) who was the eldest John , Michael & Patrick a Margaret also shows at a later stage who was older than the four mentioned . I have an idea she may have been fostered or adopted because she does not show on the 1901 Census as living with the Family, I may be wrong .

Regards

Tony

Hi Tony,
I see your g.father Dennis was registered as DONOGHUE, the same surname as his father used when he married.
Births Mar 1888: DONOGHUE , Dennis - Toxteth Park - 8b - 245.

I think I have found the family in 1891 with a 'modified' surname. Certainly all the names you mentioned are there with correct YoBs:
DONOUGHE, John - Head - 40 - 1851 - Dock Labourer - Ireland.
DONOUGHE, Mary - Wife - 23 - 1868 - Liverpool.
DONOUGHE, Margaret - Dtr - 6 - 1885 - Scholar - Liverpool.
DONOUGHE, Dennis - Son - 3 - 1888 - Liverpool.
DONOUGHE, John - Son - 1 - 1890 - Liverpool.
Address: 14 Clive Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool.
RG12 / Piece:2930 / Folio:127 - Page:29.

And this is probably Margaret's birth:
Births Dec 1885> Donoghue, Margaret - Toxteth Park - 8b - 174.
Mary's age initially lead me to suspect she may not be Margaret's mother. But then the marriage and birth were in the same year so was it a shotgun wedding?

For the benefit of the crew, on census night in 1901 the family is split up. John and Mary are with 3 children [John, Michael and Patrick] at 8 in 1 Court, Laxey Street, Toxteth Park. RG13 / 3428 / 60 / 18.
Their other 2 children, Margaret and Dennis, are with their mother's parents, Denis and Margaret Allen, at 53 Park Street, Toxteth Park. RG13 / 3429 / 30 / 7.

Because John is a Donoghue [or very close variation] when he married, for all his children, and for at least 2 census returns I am wondering if the John Donougher in 1881 at 44 Hughson Street is the same man. Particularly if this is his death: Deaths Jun 1902> Donaghue, John - 46 - Toxteth Park - 8b - 191. If it is him in 1881 then perhaps whoever filled in the household form got his name wrong and he is in fact a Donoghue?

Dickiesam

Thanks again for your reply , you could be correct on Margaret , the connection I made with Mary and John in 1881 Census was that Mary then living at 54 Hughson Street and John Donougher at 44 I agree it could be the wrong John .

I have however noticed that on checking records the name Donoghue is often mis-spelt , one other mystery why did my Grandfather Dennis use the surname Allen ? his Mothers maiden name , this I also noticed on his war medals .

Tony

dickiesam wrote: I think I have found the family in 1891 with a 'modified' surname. Certainly all the names you mentioned are there with correct YoBs:

Since the baptism of Margaret Donoghoe (1885) at Our Lady of Mount Carmel notes the address as Hughson Street, gut feeling says the family in 1881 could be the correct ones.

Essex Street for Dennis (Dionysius) in 1888, same church whose marriage to Elizabeth Hackett is noted against the baptism.

Best of luck sorting out the spellings !

Me, Alan Donougher on my birth certificate.
Father, Joseph Donougher on his birth certificate.
Grandfather, Simon Matthew Donougher on his marriage certificate
G Grandfather Chris Donohue on the 1891 Census
G Grandfather Christopher Donoughoe on the 1881 Census
G Grandfather Christopher Donoughar on his 1880 Marriage Certificate
G G Grandfather Matthew Donaugher on his 1841 Marriage Certificate.

5 different spellings in 105 years.

Wish my surname was spelled ^^^555*** I would be unique!

Alan