Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I am trying to research my Grandmother's side of the family tree. She lived in Southport before joining the RAF. I know nothing about it at all apart from a little bit of research on Ancestry. She gave me two First World War medals which she said belonged to her uncle. I have researched details on the medal and this belonged to Private Richard Ball Rimmer from Southport who sadly died on 29th July 1917 as a member of the 7th Battalion of the King's Liverpool Regiment in France and Flanders. Again after doing a bit of research on Ancestry, I have discovered that her Father was called John Rimmer and her Mother was called Florence Bolton. I believe my Grandmother used to live with her Grandmother who was a confectioner, but I can't seem to find anything else. If Richard Ball Rimmer was indeed my Grandmother's uncle I thought a census would have shown that he lived in the same house as John Rimmer at some point, who was my Grandmother's Father, however I cannot find anything. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I believe my Grandmother was born in Ormskirk and her Mother Florence Bolton was born in Wigan. My Grandmother's name was Lily Freda Rimmer. When she married she became Lily Freda Boyd. I believe she had a brother called Billy who died very young in a motorcycling accident.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

You need to start from some known facts and dates. If you have your grandmother's exact date of birth you would be able to obtain her birth certificate online from www.gro.gov.uk and this will give you both her parents names. From there the marriage certificate will give you their ages, occupations and addresses, father's names and occupations and a couple of witness names, hopefully family members.

The only marriage I have found between a John Rimmer and Florence Bolton took place in 1927 in Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended - this might have been an RC church. How did you find out her parents names?

Hi,
Many thanks for your help. I'll certainly try that website. I joined Ancestry and found my Grandmother Lily F Rimmer was born in Ormskirk in 1928. I knew it was her via the link to a marriage certificate between her and my Grandfather Leslie Harold Boyd at RAF Basford in 1951. On her birth certificate it said that her Mother was Florence Bolton who was born in Wigan. I then did a bit of research on Florence Bolton and found that she married John Rimmer. Its all a bit of a mystery really! I then decided to research the two medals she gave me which said were her uncle's and then I found out that they belonged to Richard Ball Rimmer.
Thanks again,
Victoria

I had been a little surprised to note that the marriage took place in Wigan, but if you were already aware of this then it would seem that you are on the right lines and might go straight to the marriage certificate. On the same site you could order it using the following references.

John Rimmer married Florence Bolton Q1 1927 Wigan 8c 150

You will then get the important information such as their ages and father's names etc.

Thanks again I'm hoping I have the correct name of Florence Bolton for my Grandmothers mother. When I researched lily freda rimmer I only found the one which matched my grandmothers birthdate of 2nd July 1928 & her birthplace matching southport this said her mother was Florence Bolton who later became Florence rimmer after marrying john which I researched i couldn't find any other lily freda rimmers with such an accurate match so I assumed this was correct I also thought it a bit odd that Florence married in Wigan however I see this is where she is from thanks again!

Hi Victoria and a warm welcome from a very hot Oz!!
In 1901 census Richard B's parents are Enoch & Eliza.
In the Commonwealth War Graves site they are also listed at 18 Albert Rd Southport.
In 1891 census Enoch & Eliza have kiddies including a John aged 12 yrs born in Kidlington Oxfordshire.
1881 they are in Worsley which is around Manchester/Barton upon Irwell.
They've moved around a bit perhaps for work?
Enoch is from Southport & Eliza from Staffs.
John is 2 in this census.
I hope this is of some help to you and our peepers..

Tina

Hi and greetings from a freezing Gateshead! Many thanks for your email. Strangely enough a few days ago on Ancestry I found a link to Enoch and Eliza but on a few Census' I see it says Erich instead of Enoch. I hadn't tried the war graves website so thats really useful for an address thanks. Its great to know that there was indeed a John living with Richard at some point to verify that Richard was indeed my Gran's uncle. I'll certainly go on Ancestry again later and try to fit it all in to my family tree! I'm hoping to possibly find some living relatives on my Gran's side actually, I don't really know anything about that side of the family apart from what I have discovered so far. Many thanks again for your help, I'm finding it really interesting!
Victoria
Freezing Gateshead

Hi folks
Lily F maiden Bolton birth rego Ormskirk jul-sep qtr 1928
big gap to
Alan maiden Bolton birth rego Wigan apr-jun qtr 1938
Eileen ditto Wigan apr-jun qtr 1946

In the census taken by the "Secret Seven"
after 1901...
John born Kidlington Oxfordshire is 32 and living in Bolton...The Secret Seven have a special on until 9th Jan for members, 5 credits (50p) to view and 10 credits roughly a quid.
I'll get back shortly.
I'm hoping John was a printer??

Tina

Hi Victoria
Someone has put a correction in for Enoch also for 1891 census surname.
If you click on the correction it will give you the posters link.
Could be worth making a contact.
I've found a few probs with John in Bolton, he's married to Susan maiden Edge, 1910.
There is a daughter born after census in 1914 name of Lily

Another interesting thing I found was a death sadly for Lily Rimmer aged 16yrs in Ormskirk 1917 only 16yrs.
I wonder who she belongs too?
Leave it for later....
Tina

Hi Tina,
Wow thats really interesting, you are obviously better than me at family tree research, I haven't been doing it for long actually but find it really interesting. The earlier Lily Rimmer does sound interesting yes, I'll certainly see if I can locate these documents on Ancestry later. I wonder if John my Grans' Father married twice then?..On my Gran's birth certificate its says that her Mother was Florence Bolton from Wigan. My Gran was born on 2nd July 1928. My Mother remembers her talking about a brother called Billy which I assumed was short for William, who died very young in a motorcycling accident but I couldn't find anything about him. My Gran is called Lillian Freda Boyd (nee Rimmer) but I found it interesting that it came up as the shortened Lily F Rimmer in the census. I'm do some more hunting again later!..Regarding her uncle Richard Ball Rimmer who died in 1917 in France and Flanders, I couldn't find anything on a grave, do you have any idea where I could find any information on this?
Many thanks again,
Victoria

'Lo tis me again
Flanders is in Belgium.
Richard's name will be on a Memorial at Menin Gate. Panel 4 and 6.
Several of our members have been there and could tell you more than I can. The Last Post played in the evening is very moving.
Richard probably won't have a grave as such, I'm not sure.
http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/othercemet ... morial.htm

http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_det ... 800&mode=1



Tina

Southport splendid hearts has the following listed for
Rimmer, Richard Ball
private 265080, 7th battallion, king's liverpool regiment
born, lived, enlisted, Southport
killed in action F&F 29-7-1917
commonwealth war grave information
age 26 son of Enoch and Eliza Rimmer of 18 Albert rd, Southport
date of death 31-7-1917 [ note different date than casualty lists]
information from Southport Visiter 26-11-1914 p6 C5 photo 1-6-1915 p6 c2 photo 23-8-1917 p6 c2 photo
Eldest son of Enoch Rimmer, Albert Lodge, Hesketh Park. grandson of P. B. Reeny of Eastbourne rd, birkdale. Private Rimmer was wounded in 1915 at Festubert by a piece of shrapnel in his left cheek which broke three teeth and came through the front of his chin.He was killed July 31st 1917.[ note different date of death given by Visiter]

Good work N.M, great finds.

It looks like Enoch married Eliza Claridge in Headington (Ox) march 1877.

Tina

A little more about Richard Ball Rimmer. His battalion, 1/7th, King's Liverpool Regiment, was a Territorial unit, part timers until the outbreak of war, with its headquarters at Park Street, Bootle. By 1917 they were part of the 55th (West Lancashire) Division, mostly made up of other territorial battalions from Liverpool and district.
31st July was the start of the Battle of Pilkem, one of the many battles in the Ypres area that year and recognised as one of the key parts of what is known as 'Third Ypres'. After fierce fighting and struggling through heavy cut-up ground the division reached its objectives, capturing a good deal of enemy territory, but at some cost. The Division suffered many casualties: 168 officers and 3384 other ranks, according to the Division's historian, though he does not say how many of these were fatal.
This history does not gives names of individual soldiers, but their names should never be forgotten.
As Tina says, the daily Last Post ceremony at the Menin Gate is extremely moving. The vast memorial has thousands of names of those with no known grave.
The Division's motto was 'THEY WIN OR DIE WHO WEAR THE ROSE OF LANCASTER'.
Daggers

Later: The War Graves Commission lists 486 members of the various battalions of the King's Liverpool Regiment whose lives were lost on 31 July 1917. Many others will have died of wounds on other dates.
Added later still:
Of the 1/7th Battalion men who died on 31/7/17, nearly all whose details I have looked at have no known grave but are remembered on the Menin Gate Memorial.
And again:
There is a website dedicated to the King's, with some detail on the 1/7 Bn
http://www.liverpoolregt.co.uk/
It includes details of RBR, including a photo of his name on the MG Memorial. The site is run by Joe Devereux who has done a huge amount of research over the years.
D

[removed]

Brian

Of course we also have a VERY active Southport Branch of the Liverpool & SWL Society, who host approximately six meetings each month at Birkdale, a couple at Tarleton and Formby and also Bootle, plus Helpdesks where I'm sure you would receive excellent help.

Love to see you at the meetings, details of which are here http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/groups.htm

You need to be careful as there are more than one Enoch Rimmers and there are 2 who have wives called Eliza.

This would appear to be your Richard B Rimmer in 1901. His birth registration is gien as 1892 which ties in with the age at death of 26 in 1917.

1901 census 52a Tulketh Street Southport
Enoch Rimmer h M 30 gardener (corporation) bn Southport
Eliza Rimmer wife 35 bn Southport
Richard B Rimmer son 9 bn Southport

then 1891 129A Linaker Street Southport
Enoch Rimmer H M 21 gardener bn Southport
Eliza Rimmer wife 25 bn Southport

then possibly for 1881 at 62 High Park Road with parents Richard and Ellen Rimmer

To find your John you need to buy the marriage certificate of John to Florence. This will give you John's age his father's name and occupation which should then tie him to Richard Ball Rimmer

The above Enoch married Eliza Keen at St Cuthbert's church Churchtown Southport in 1890. This is shown on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk As John didn't marry until 1906 I think he will be younger than Richard. You need to buy some credits on www.findmypast.co.uk and look up the family on the 1911 census.

Hilary
Ed Officer

The address given in Southport's Splendid Hearts as Albert Lodge Hesketh Park would tie in with Enoch being a corporation gardener at Hesketh Park. The park was developed by the Southport Corporation. This park has recently been renovated. The lodge houses still stand.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Eliza An Keen Enoch's wife is the daughter of Richard B Keen and his wife Eliza. Hew was born in 1841 in Southport area she was born according to the census in either Chester or Frodsham. In 1871 they are at 11 railway Street.

In 1881 they are at 31 William Street. In 1891 they are at 124 Shakespeare Street. This was the same street that was renamed Shakespeare Street and renumbered from the opposite end so they may well be in the same house. To find out you would have to look at the neighbours and consult the local directories. My ancestors lived in William Street at one time and this is how I came to discover the renaming and renumbering.

In 1901 Richard B and his wife are at 11 Elm Road Birkdale. They are transcribed as Reen. Richard B died in 1918.

I think that the P B Reeny of the Southport Splendid Hearts is Richard B Keen.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Dear all many thanks for your fantastic help in researching Richard Ball Rimmer my Grandmother's uncle and for your help with researching the other Rimmers! It is greatly appreciated. I remember my Grandmother talking a lot about a park keeper so that certainly makes sense, I think she actually said that her Father John Rimmer was park keeper at once time or another. I've never been to Southport so I think I'd like to visit what I've been researching! Regarding Richard Ball Rimmer it is very moving to hear how he died, I have his two First War medals. Thanks again, I'll keep delving and maybe I'll find some living relatives!..
Victoria
Gateshead