Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Can anybody suggest an alternative for the surname Hayhouse shown in the record below from http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/? (I believe the groom is my great great grandfather.)

Marriage: 8 Feb 1847 St Wilfrid, Farnworth near Prescot, Lancashire, England
Richard Johnson - (X), of full age Labourer bachelor of Prescot
Sarah Hayhouse - (X), of full age spinster of Prescot
Groom's Father: Richard Johnson, Labourer
Bride's Father: Joseph Hayhouse, Stone mason
Witness: Peter Rigby; Ann Johnson, (X)
Married by Banns by: Frederic Walker - Curate
Register: Marriages 1845 - 1850, Page 80, Entry 159
Source: LDS Film 1655236 item 3

Familysearch and FreeBMD also give the surname as Hayhouse, but I suspect that the curate in the record has misheard the name and used Hayhouse.

There is (apparently) a Hayhouse family in the 1841 census (in Middlesex) but I think this may also be erroneous as well as they all fail to appear in any subsequent censuses. (There is a Sarah in this family but her age is too young to be the one above.)

To further complicate matters the above Sarah also seems to use the name Louisa, as shown by the records below for the children of the family. (The first from Familysearch, the other three from http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/)

Name, Thomas Johnson
Gender, Male
Baptism/Christening Date, 13 Jun 1847
Baptism/Christening Place, Hale, Lancashire, England
Birth Date, 13 May 1847
Father's Name, Richard Johnson
Mother's Name, Louisa Johnson

Baptisms: 14 Mar 1852 St Nicholas, Sutton, Lancashire, England
Ellen Johnson - Daughter of Richard Johnson & Sarah
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: H. E. F. Vallancey Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1849 - 1870, Page 15, Entry 110
Source: LDS Film 1657568

Baptisms: 29 Jan 1854 St Wilfrid, Farnworth near Prescot, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Johnson - dau of Richard Johnson & Louisa
Abode: Widnes
Occupation: Watchmaker
Baptised by: William Jeff Minister
Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1862, Page 165, Entry 1313
Source: LDS Film 1655234 item 6

Baptisms: 17 Jul 1859 St Wilfrid, Farnworth near Prescot, Lancashire, England
John Johnson - son of Richard Johnson & Louisa
Abode: Widnes
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: William Jeff Minister
Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1862, Page 251, Entry 2006
Source: LDS Film 1655234 item 6

(There was another son born in 1857, Richard, my great grandfather, but I cannot find any record of his baptism.)

In the 1851 census she is Sarah and in the 1861 census she is Louisa. By now I am sure some of you will be thinking that Sarah and Louisa are two different Johnsons, but the children listed in these censuses (and the 1871 census when Richard has become a widower) seem to indicate only one family.

The 1851 census shows Sarah as having been born in Birkenhead. So I looked at the 1841 census for surnames that might resemble/sound like Hayhouse for all the Sarahs, Louisas and Josephs (her father) living there then but could not find anything obvious.

Can anybody suggest a surname?

You have only got baptisms, I would suggest that you obtain one of the birth certificates which will give the mother's maiden name, perhaps that will be clearer.

Assuming that the baptisms took place shortly after the birth, there are entries in the index for both Ellen and Elizabeth, for John it's a little more ambiguous. However to be sure, I would suggest that you speak to the local register office (Prescot I believe would cover these areas) and give them the details, especially the parents names as they hopefully will be helpful enough to check not only the one you ask for but if incorrect, then they will probably check around that date to see if they can find the right one.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will give it a try.

what about Heyhouses in Whalley

I have just had a look at the Heyhouses in Whalley, but it seems like this might also be a misheard or transcribed surname.

Baptisms: 7 May 1837 St Mary and All Saints, Whalley, Lancashire, England
James Heyhouses - Child of Richard Heyhouses & Mary
Abode: Little Mitton
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: W Hodgson
Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1845 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page [30], Entry 240
Source: LDS Film 1068756

There is no marriage for any Heyhouses in this parish (or any other in http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/) but there is one for a Hayhurst which seems to fit, and they go on to have several more children (see below).

Marriage: 13 Mar 1837 St Mary and All Saints, Whalley, Lancashire, England
Richard Hayhurst - Bachelor of Little Mitton of this Parish
Mary Whitaker - (X), Spinster of Little Mitton of this Parish
Witness: Cyrus Hayhurst; James Ingham
Married by Banns by: William Hodgson
Register: Marriages 1828 - 1837 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 213, Entry 638
Source: LDS Film 1068756

Baptisms: 6 Sep 1840 St Mary and All Saints, Whalley, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hayhurst - Child of Richard Hayhurst & Mary
Abode: Little Mitton
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: R N Whitaker
Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1845 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page [59], Entry 466
Source: LDS Film 1068756

Baptisms: 18 Aug 1844 St Mary and All Saints, Whalley, Lancashire, England
Richard Hayhurst - Child of Richard Hayhurst & Mary
Abode: Little Mitton
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: J M Whalley, Rector of Slaidburn
Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1845 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page [85], Entry 673
Source: LDS Film 1068756

Baptisms: 30 Jul 1848 St Mary and All Saints, Whalley, Lancashire, England
Margaret Hayhurst - Child of Richard Hayhurst & Mary
Abode: Little Mitton
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: Geo Preston
Register: Baptisms 1848 - 1860 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 110, Entry 880
Source: LDS Film 1068756

Baptisms: 1 Mar 1871 St Mary and All Saints, Whalley, Lancashire, England
John Hayhurst - Child of Richard Hayhurst & Mary
Abode: Whalley
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: R N Whitaker
Register: Baptisms 1862 - 1875 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 60, Entry 478
Source: LDS Film 1068756

Baptisms: 9 May 1872 St Mary and All Saints, Whalley, Lancashire, England
Richard Hayhurst - Child of Richard Hayhurst & Mary
Abode: Whalley
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: I Downham
Register: Baptisms 1862 - 1875 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 69, Entry 552
Source: LDS Film 1068756

For those of you who might be interested, I have obtained a birth certificate to determine what this surname of Hayhouse really was. I decided to get the birth certificate of Richard Johnson, who I believe to be my great grandfather, and his mother is shown as Louisa Hughes.

It seems a bit of a leap from Hughes to Hayhouse, but it may have been her accent that fooled the curate. Armed now with her real name and her father's name and occupation (Joseph Hughes, stonemason) I searched for her in the 1841 census and found the only match to be living in Merthyr Tydfil.

Name Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
HUGHES, Joseph 50 1791 Mason
HUGHES, Jane 45 1796
HUGHES, William 20 1821 Mason Glamorgan
HUGHES, Louisa 15 1826 Glamorgan

Yes we are always interested in your research and you seem to have unearthed a mystery.

One possibility is that Louisa Hughes married a Heyhurst - next thing to look for perhaps?

A Louisa Hughes married in June Q 1846 Merthy Tydfil volume 26 page 740

Perhaps this should be checked out?

Hilary
Ed Officer

I think there is some confusion here. I have assumed that my great great grandfather Richard Johnson married the mistakenly recorded Sarah/Louisa Hayhouse (actually Louisa Hughes) on 8.2.1847 (from http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ and checked by looking at the microfilm of the parish register). (The birth certificate I have obtained is for their son Richard, born 15.1.1857, and shows his mother to be formally Louisa Hughes.)

Are you suggesting that her marriage to Richard Johnson is her second marriage within less than 10 months?

Not 10 months, but perhaps 10 years.

You have a marriage between Richard Johnson and Sarah Hayhouse - you don't know for a fact that this is Louisa Hughes.

Ten years later you have a birth certificate giving the mother as Louisa Hughes.

I'm iffy about the baptism of Elizabeth, it would be very strange if a labourer suddenly became a Watchmaker, and then also returned to his labouring job. There is also quite a gap between Thomas and Ellen ....

I'm going to give the full details for the two censuses here for others to see and hope that we get some more thoughts

1851 Sutton Nook, St Helens, Lancashire
Richard Johnson Head M 29 Labourer Lancashire Crosby
Sarah Wife M 21 Cheshire Birkenhead
Thomas Son 4 Lancashire Hale
HO107; Piece: 2195; Folio: 258; Page: 30

1861 Dog Lane, Widnes St Mary, Lancashire
Richard Johnson Head M 39 Chem Labourer Lancashire Widnes
Louisa Wife M 34 Lancashire Berm??
Thomas Son Unm 15 Chem Lab " Hale
Ellen daur 9 " Sutton
Elizabeth daur 7 " Widnes
Richard son 3 " "
John son 1 " "
Mary Mother Wid 85 " Crosby
William Wright Boarder 23 Chem Lab " Widnes
RG9; Piece: 2743; Folio: 36; Page: 18

There would definitely appear to be a Crosby link for the Johnsons.

I should have mentioned in the last post that Richard senior’s occupation on Richard junior’s birth certificate of 1857 was journeyman watchmaker.

I have looked for a marriage of a Richard Johnson and a Louisa Hughes during the appropriate time period but have found none.

(Regarding the gap between Thomas and Ellen, familysearch.org has the birth of a Joseph to a Richard and Sarah Johnson on 23.9.1848 in Hale, the same place as Thomas. Perhaps this is the same Richard and Sarah? There are deaths of two Joseph Johnsons before the 1851 census which might explain his absence.)

If it helps, below is the 1871 census record I have been assuming is my great great grandfather.

1871 63 Pleasant Street, Widnes. St Lukes, Lancashire
Richard Johnson Head Widower 47 Chemical Labourer Lancashire Crosby
Ellen Dau Unmarried 21 Housekeeper Lancashire Liverpool
Richard Son 12 Lancashire Widnes
Charles Son 2 Lancashire Widnes

As you can see, he was born in Crosby, the problem is his age is out by 2 years. Also the ages of his children Ellen and Richard are not in line with previous census data. As he is listed as a Widower I looked for deaths of Sarah/Louisa Johnson between 1861 and 1871 (Prescot registration district only), possible deaths of a Sarah Johnson in March Q of either 1864 or 1865, and of Louisa Johnson in December Q of 1864. The problem with all of these is that in the 1871 census Richard is a Widower but has a son Charles who is only 2, unless the child is actually his grandson and is the son of his unmarried daughter Ellen who still lives with him? Also I cannot find the birth (in Pres

Sorry, this part fell off theend of the last post.

Also I cannot find the birth (in Prescot registration district) of this Charles.