Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi All,

I have the service record for my great uncle, his name was George Roach and he lived at 85 Fonthill Rd, Kirkdale, here is the information on the service record:

George Roach
24290
Royal Regt of Artillery
Rank Gunner, attestation 6th Sept 1914
Posted B/89th BDE RFA 23 Nov 1914
Posted D/89th BDE RFA 8 April 1915
Campaigns - Expedition Force France 1914 to 1915
278th BTY

Is it possible to find out where he was posted and what happened to his brigade? Also there doesn't appear to be any mention in the service record as to what happended to him after 1915, there is no mention of discharge - he survived the war. I'm assuming that he may have been injured but I've not been able to find anything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Alan

Alan
89th Brigade RFA ws formed as a New Army unit in September 1914 and was broken up in September 1916.
See the Long, Long Trail site for some more:
http://www.1914-1918.net
then click on Royal Artillery.
It may be that some of the personnel moved to 130 or 146 Brigade but my other source is not clear.

Are you sure about the regimental number you quoted? That does not show up for any Roach on a search of the Medal Index Cards, available on the National Archives, documents online. Do you have his medals? The number will be impressed on the rim or reverse.

Once this is sorted, I suggest you try the Great War Forum where there are more learned sleuths who will help you.
D

Following on...
I Googled '278 Battery RFA' and found this:


LXXXIX (Howitzer) Brigade. When the Brigade was reorganised a fourth Battery was formed. Further reorganisation took place in May 1916 when the Brigade lost its Howitzer designation.

A (Howitzer) Bty. Feb 1915 - 25 May 1916. Went to the LXXXVI Bde where it became D (Howitzer) Bty.
A (Howitzer) Bty. Feb 1915 - 07 Aug 1915. To the 28th Division where it eventually became B (Howitzer) Bty, CXXX Bde.
C (Howitzer) Bty. Feb 1915 - 25 May 1916. Went to the LXXXVII Bde where it became D (Howitzer) Bty.
D (Howitzer) Bty. Feb 1915 - 25 May 1916. Went to the LXXXVIII Bde where it became D (Howitzer) Bty.

D

Can confirm that 24290 is correct for Gunner Roach who joined Bulford 7-4-14 and 278th Bty 23-11-14.

All pages are damaged around the edges and the first page appears as though there may have been another number before 24290, however, later in the papers it is repeated so is correct.

Is it possible that his number changed?

At the end of his Service Records I think is details of a Victory Medal awarded to Gunner G Roach, 28299, Unit R.F.A.? dated 27.8.1921

Thanks Daggers and Mary,

I checked the service record and I agree with Mary, on his conduct sheet it has 24290 as his number, but further on there is victory medal card with the number 38399 (or possibly 28299) - I'd not noticed.

I'm wondering if he changed regiments and received a different number, may be this is the reason why the information stops after 1915? Is this possible?

I downloaded the MIC and the number appears to be 38399, as Daggers says, and it looks as though he was awarded 3 medals? Victory, Star, but I can't make out the middle one.

Cheers, Alan

Yes I now agree about the number, later in the Service Record where I saw it the first number was quite scribbly and I wasn't sure if it was a 2.

Perhaps one of our guys will be able to explain some of the entries, such as "See S W B Card"

My grandad was in the SWB South Wales Borderers

simone wrote:My grandad was in the SWB South Wales Borderers

Aaaah this card maybe mistakenly attached to our George then unless of course it's where he transferred to or is that getting too confusing

SWB stands for Silver War Badge. This was given when someone was honourable discharged usually from wound. His card does have DISCH on it ie discharged.

Googling SWB card produced a number of hits and information. I gather that you have to find the person in an index and then move onto the actual Silver War badge cards. It sounds complicated and they are all apparently in the National Archives

I would read it that you man served until he was wounded presumably sometime after 1915 and was awarded the Silver War Badge. The badge was to show that someone had been wounded and discharged and therefore wasn't pestered as to why they were not fighting.


Hilary
Ed Officer

Found a bit more - he must have served until 1916.

Found this on The Long long trail website

The Silver War Badge, sometimes wrongly referred to as the Silver Wound Badge, was instituted from 12 September 1916 under Army Order 316. It is a circular badge with the legend "For King and Empire - Services Rendered" surrounding the King George V cypher. The badge had a pin for wear as a brooch.

The badge was awarded to all of those military personnel who had served at home or overseas during the war, and who had been discharged from the army under King's Regulations. Expiry of a normal term of engagement did not count and the most commonly seen KR is 392(xvi), meaning the soldier had been released on account of being permanantly physically unfit.

It was possible to be awarded a badge if the man had not served overseas - and if his service record is now lost this may be the only remaining evidence of service for such a soldier.


Hilary
Ed Officer

Hilary is right - the Medal Rolls are only available at the National Archives, Kew, and not online anywhere. It is unlikely that they will tell you more, as the dates of discharge and the breaking up of his brigade were so close.
You probably recognise from the medal card that Gunner Roach earned the three campaign medals, known as a trio, or as Pip, Squeak and Wilfrid [after a popular cartoon's characters].
SWB is confusingly short for both the Silver War Badge [for which there are separate Rolls at Kew] and as Simone says, the South Wales Borderers.
D

Dohhh forgot about the Silver War Badge

Thanks to all, this certainly makes sense.

George died in 1939 and is buried in Ford, he was 46 and never married. I'm going to order his death cerificate from the GRO to see if there is any connection with the injuries he picked-up during the war. I don't know what happened to his war medals.

It appears as though the 89th (LXXXIX) Brigade 278th BTY was in the 19th Division, here is the link:

http://www.ordersofbattle.darkscape.net ... 19_div.htm

Looking at the list of Battles and Engagaments, it appears as though he was involved in the Battle of Loos 25th Sept to 8th Oct, this would sort of line up with the dates in his service record. The next Battle for the 19th is the Battle of Albert in July 1 1916, which looks as though it was after his discharge. One could speculate he was injured at Loos - what do you think?

Thanks again, Alan

So is it likely that it is the same man with two different numbers?

And also by the way, who were his parents and do you know where they came from? I'm assuming Ireland, but possibly Wexford? I have Roach[e]/Roches connected to my Lamberts who lived in various streets around Kirkdale, parents were Gerald Roach and Catherine Lambert.

It appears as though George had two separate numbers, I think Daggers mentioned in a previous post the fact that 89th brigade (278 battery was in the 89th) was reorganised at some point in 1916, perhaps this process meant George was given a new number since he effectively went to a new brigade?

Cheers, Alan

Sorry Mary, I should have mentioned that George's parents were Alexander Roach and Elizabeth McKeown (my great grandparents). George is buried in the same plot as his parents.

Alan

Looking back at Alexander's past I don't think there was a relationship between your Roaches and mine, but it always worth thinking about.

Hi Alan

I know someone you are related to and he works at the Liverpool Record Office. Your also related to a lady in America Dorothy is her name she used to post on this board. Ill send you details.

Hi Kathy,

I know Dorothy, her dad and my grandad were brothers. I've also met Kevin at the LRO at few times - he's my second cousin. Its a small world we live in.

Cheers, Alan

Hi All,

Just in case there is interest, I received the death certificate for George, he died on 21st March 1939 age 46, cause of death was Suppurative Meninigitus, which apparently is caused by a virus or bacteria. So his cause of death appears not to be related to his injury from the war.

Cheers, Alan