Looking for (John) Joseph Anderson, Toxteth.

[Stephen Nulty]

I am trying to locate (John) Joseph Anderson, known to be in the Toxteth Park area in the mid 1890’s.

On his marriage certificate to Catherine Mulholland in October of 1896, Joseph stated that he was 20 years old, a Boiler Scraper, of 152 Mill Street, Toxteth Park. He was the son of John Joseph Anderson, a Joiner’s Labourer.

Catherine’s age is hard to read but we believe that she was in reality only aged 16.
She lived at Llanwrst Street, close to Park Lane.

On the birth certificate of their son, John Joseph Anderson, the following year, the father’s name is recorded as John Joseph Anderson, a Ship Scraper. They had a further 8 or 9 children, as I recall.

My problem is that I cannot find any reference to Joseph Anderson, born c. 1876, in any census, made trickier by the fact that I don’t know where he was born. Nor have I been able to track down any record of his death. I have found Catherine in the 1911 census, still shown as “Married” but with no record of John Joseph.

There was some vague family story that he might have been murdered, but it’s hard to know how much of it has any semblance to reality!

Any pointers gratefully received.

Stephen

[Tina]

Hi Stephen
What age is Catherine in the 1910=12 census please, 29?
There's a John Joseph listed bn 1897 in T.Pk
1901 have a Catherine who is 21 married, son JOSEPH 4, dghtr Ellen 2(Catherine's mothers name),
living in Tockie Park, courts in Rankin St.
Hubby probably at sea during both census?

Tina

[Stephen Nulty]

Yes, that's the family correctly identified in both.

We had a thought about him being at sea but the only canidate we found in 1901 was born in Scotland. Now this may have been our man, but I have nothing to link him beyond the name and age.

I have the ADM188 records for this chap from NA, but it doesn't add any evidence to it being "my" JJA.

And no trace in the post 1910 period, nor any record of death.

Thanks for the interest

[Tina]

Lo tis me again
John bn 1913, Catherine bn 1915 both Tk Park maiden Mulholland.

Tina

[Stephen Nulty]

Yes, that's another two of the children.

I already have everything I need to know about the rest of the family, it is just JJA born c. 1876 who is proving elusive. I need to locate his birth, death, and his location at the time of any of the 4 census taken while I know he was alive, i.e. 1881 - 1911.

[dickiesam]

Hi Stephen,
I think you may already have found this possible for 1901 and I am repeating it for the benefit of the crew here:
ANDERSON, Joseph - Member Of Crew - Married - 24 - 1877 - Leading Seaman - Midlothian, Edinburgh.

Registration District: Royal Navy At Sea and in Ports Abroad.
"Repulse" - First-class battleship.
RG13 - Piece:5332 - Folio:38 - Page:13

If he met and married Catherine Mulholland while in port in Liverpool it would explain why he is not in England census records prior to 1901, since he is Scots. Anyone with Scotland's People credits to spare?

Edit: Just found a death that matches his YoB:
Deaths Mar 1945> Anderson, Joseph - 69 - Liverpool N. - 8b - 368.

Dickiesam

[Stephen Nulty]

Yes, I had the 1901 entry and I obtained his ADM188 records from NA for that chap in case they could shed any further light, but to no avail.

Something doesn't sit right with me about him being in the Navy, despite his occupation, and I think it's the recording of the 152, Mill Street address on his wedding certificate. If he was a sailor, why have that address? I couldn't locate the address on the 1911 census.

But many thanks for that death entry. I'm now at the stage where I think that buying certificates is the only way forward so I will invest in that one and report back once it turns up.

[dickiesam]

Hi Stephen,
I agree about the occupation of boiler scraper not fitting with being a Navy man. Usually boiler maintenance of ships would be carried out by outside contractors, and there were many other boiler types needing a scrape!

So where is he? Or was he a Scot and did he cease being a boiler scraper when he took the Queen's shilling and signed up for the Navy, between getting married and 1901? I believe boiler scraping was a pretty disgusting and filthy job as well as being quite dangerous health-wise.

The people living at 152 Mill Street in 1891 are not there in 1901, in fact the dwelling has no occupants and neither do #s 153 and 154. Maybe they were grotsville?

Looking forward to that death cert info.. here's hoping...

Dickiesam

EDIT: Might be an idea to send for birth certs for a couple of the children; Ellen bn abt 1899 [2 years before the census], Frances bn 1907 [abt midway between 1901 and 1911]; And confirm the father's occupation(s)?
Births Dec 1898> Anderson, Ellen - W. Derby - 8b - 440.
Births Mar 1907> ANDERSON , Frances Clara - W. Derby - 8b - 279.

Because you have at least two births after 1911 consider sending for one of those after the above two.

[Stephen Nulty]

I was going to send for the DC first, then if that dcoesn't resolve matters then I would start working back through his children's marriage certificates from the latest.

The "KERCHING" factor is creeping into this one !!!!

[dickiesam]

I was going to send for the DC first, then if that doesn't resolve matters then I would start working back through his children's marriage certificates from the latest.

The "KERCHING" factor is creeping into this one !!!!

Stephen, I've been thinking about that death cert....
If the priority is to find your man in the available censuses and then hopefully back to his birth, I suggest you go for the children's birth certs first. The death cert, if it is himself, will probably only tell you his last occupation before his retirement. And that could be very different from what he was doing 50 years before.

Brian

[Blue70]

Using my 1 credit leftover from a while back I found the following births onsite:-

1875 Joseph Anderson, St Giles, Edinburgh City/Midlothian
1876 Joseph Anderson, Newton, Midlothian
1877 Joseph George Anderson, St Giles, Edinburgh City/Midlothian


Blue

[dickiesam]

Using my 1 credit leftover from a while back I found the following births onsite:-
1875 Joseph Anderson, St Giles, Edinburgh City/Midlothian
Blue

Hi Blue,
Good find.. The St Giles birth looks like the Royal Navy man I found in 1901.

Dickiesam

[Stephen Nulty]

Brian

Good point about the certs.

I have the details from Scotlands People about that birth, but I am struggling to find some way to definitely link it to the man who lived in Mill Street in 1896

Onwards and upwards......

[Tina]

Hi
Kellys/Gores Directory 1894
152 Mill St was Jn Kavanah boot & shoe maker.

Tina

[Stephen Nulty]

That's interesting - I wonder if he was just a lodger........

[Katie]

Hi Steve

Your not going to believe this but I have been helping some one from the Warrington area with this line. I will pm you his name. He said that John Joseph Anderson was a seaman and he was supposed to have died at sea. in 1915 I had a look in seamans deaths at Kew but I was unable to locate him His daughter Catherine Anderson married a Hilditch and on her marriage certificate he is a SHips Greaser. The children to John Joseph Anderson and Catherine Mulholland were baptised at Our Lady of Mount Carmel High Park Street.

[Katie]

Hi Steve I have just spoke to the chap who is the grandson of John Joseph Anderson. What is your connection to John Joseph?

His mum was the last child born in 1915 to John Joseph and Catherine Mulholland, his mum never knew her father and the family story was that he was lost at sea in suspicous circumstances (Tossed overboard). He has given me permission to pass on his contact details to you. The funny thing is he lives near to you.

[Katie]

This may be relavent or not




Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John ANDERSON Head M Male 36 Dublin, Ireland Builders Laborer
Mary ANDERSON Wife M Female 39 Tipperary, Ireland
Thomas ANDERSON Son Male 11 Dublin, Ireland Scholar
Ann ANDERSON Daur Female 8 Dublin, Ireland Scholar
John J. ANDERSON Son Male 4 Dublin, Ireland

Source Information:
Dwelling 74 Birkett St (Sweet Shop)
Census Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341870
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3632 / 91
Page Number 5

[Tina]

Katie, the world is shrinking!!
Fantastic post and well done to you for helping so many

Marriage Catherine Anderson to William A Hilditch
1940 4th qtr Lpool.

Tina

[Stephen Nulty]

Katie

Much appreciated. Have replied to your PM.

The Andersons are my wife's family