Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

hello, i am trying to trace information on my Dads family, but the problem is old family rifts..

to explain, my fathers parents were a mixed marriage, she an imigrant irish catholic he from a protestant family, maybe welsh maybe scots baptist/methodist???? i cannot be certain.

both families disowned them, so there was little talk about grandparents etc to remember, & since they married in 1906 no one to ask

all i do know is stephen Lee married catherine phair 1906 prescot register office, he was a miner & they lived in Parr sthelens, they had children 7 i think, including my Dad stephen *kitchener Lee born in 1915.

*Kitchener after lord kitchener in who's army his Dad served in WW1

i have no information at all on catherine phair, except she came over from ireland to work as a very young girl & never went back.

thanks bye

Using the free index only from the 1911 census, I see that there is a family in St Helens consisting of Stephen Lee 28, Catherine 25, Mary 4, Harriet 2 and John 6 months.

If you think this family is yours, you now need two things -

One is to get credits for the 1911 census and see the full information given - fairly important to see where Catherine is born since her birthplace is not given as Ireland but St Helens.

The other important item to get is their marriage certificate - you can either order this from the LancashireBMD site where you got your original information from - they may have married in an RC church where the registrar attended. Alternatively you can order the certificate online at www.gro.gov.uk using the reference
Stephen Lee and Catherine Phair Q1 1906 Prescot 8b 935

This certificate will give you confirmation of their ages, addresses and occupations also their fathers names and occupations and witnesses who might be relatives. This information will be able to help us find them further back in censuses.

i don't think this is the right family, there has never been a mention of children mary, harriet or john?
as far as i know they were married either in the chapel of what is now whiston hopital or a prescot office, no family member was present & non or few friends as they had to get special permission due to the objections of both sets of parents to the marriage & did not want angry family to kick up a fuss on the day.

my dad said that stephens family tried all ways to stop them, & catherines family refused permission, so the couple decided to force the issue by getting her pregnant, this did not work -the families still would not budge & dad said they had to apply for a court order siting the legitamacy of the baby as reason to get permission to wed.

stephens family never accepted catherine - even with young children, pregnant & a husband away at war they shunned her, & her family did not want to know her, as you can immagine this is why information on their families is not well know,

bye

Well you may be able to get more information from the census image itself if you download it.

Meantime, we await sight of details from the marriage certificate.

Hi Mary
In the 1910-12 you found, there's also a Frank 7 perhaps a relative?
Stephen K's birth rego has the maiden name of Phair.
Also Elsie 1913. (no earlier births as you would know)
Never seen this surname before!
There's William 1920 & Louisa S 1922 (I've found a Stephen 17yrs old in 1901 St H..mother Louisa Sophia!! he was born in Skem) James T 1924, Elizabeth A 1927.
Prescot.
Back to 1910-12 the Stephen you found 28 yrs was born in Skem!!

Lee parents are in 1910-12 with some kiddies too young to be there's.

Tina

added, there may have been 7 children from the marriage but sadly there could be others who didn't survive
1891 as Lea in Skem

Me again
There's a Katie Phair in 1891 census Parr, surname transcribed as Pellair, an Anc@ member has made the correction.
She's 5 yrs old bn St Helens, which fits in with your findings Mary for 1910-1912.
Father was John born in Ireland, mother Mary bn St H.

Won't search anymore until we hear about marr. cert

Tina

Hi Salee,
Just passing thru'.....
If there's one thing I have learned from this 'hobby' of family genealogy it is take family 'stories' with a large pinch of salt. The tales tend to get embellished through the years so it is often difficult to tell truth from fiction. For instance, Catherine Phair may not have been an Irish immigrant but may have been descended from an Irish family.

There are only 3 Catherine [Kate] Phairs in the 1901 census and this one is the only one in Lancashire. When you get the marriage cert with her father's name on it might hopefully confirm this entry:
PHAIR, Edward - Head - Widower - 62 - 1839 - Tailor (Journeyman) - Ireland.
PHAIR, John - Son - u/m - 26 - 1875 - Tailor (Journeyman) - Manchester.
PHAIR, May - Dtr - u/m - 19 - 1882 - Tailoress - Manchester.
PHAIR, Kate - Dtr - u/m - 17 - 1884 - Tailoress - Manchester.
PHAIR, Julia - Dtr - 9 - 1892 - Manchester.
PHAIR, Jane - Dtr - 6 - 1895 - Manchester.
Address: 20 Grove Street, Manchester.
RG number: RG13 / Piece:3746 / Folio:58 / Page:36.

If the above Kate is the right Catherine, this death might have something to do with the family 'row'. Same year as the marriage....
Deaths Sep 1906> Phair, Edward - 57 - Manchester - 8d - 165.

There are these Lee births maiden name Phair from 1911 to 1925:
LEE, Elsie - Prescot, Lancashire - 1913 Mar qtr.
LEE, Stephen K - Prescot, Lancashire - 1915 Mar qtr.
LEE, William - Prescot, Lancashire - 1920 Mar qtr.
LEE, Louisa S - Prescot, Lancashire - 1922 Mar qtr.
LEE, James T - Prescot, Lancashire - 1924 Dec qtr.

Dickiesam

well....

the stephen K lee is right for my Dad, elsie is his older sister & there is a brother james & i think a sister was known as lou 7 maybe a brother bill? so thats the right bunch i would say,

as to kate/katie/cathy/catherine phair the 1884 birth date is about right too.

the plot thickens......

i will add info if i find any, thanks to everyone bye