Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I recently obtained a birth certificate that I believe to be for my Great Grandmother. She wasn't on the indexes under her full name but seeing that her parents didn't marry until two years later(!) I ordered a matching certificate that had the same surname as her mother.

The birth was in West Derby Workhouse in February 1881, entered as "Walton Workhouse", no father's details were included. The mother was a domestic servant so the father may have been from the household where she was living. I can't find the mother on the 1871 or 1881 Census so it's a bit of mystery.

I imagine she only went to the Workhouse for the birth and then other arrangements were made to see her and the baby alright. It wasn't until 1883 that she married so I don't think the husband will have been the father.

Blue

You could very well be right, but sadly you may never be sure. Is there any help you need with this?

Unfortunatly admission and discharge records dont survive for Walton only a couple for 1914. These were rescued from a skip. The minutes for West Derby Union do survive which may be worth consulting.

Hi Blue,
Not certain about this but I believe that Walton had an infirmary attached to the workhouse by that time. The workhouse infirmaries were the NHS of the time; the only places where working class, and the poor, could get some sort of health care. I've a couple of births, as well as deaths, in workhouse infirmaries.

If the mother was not married to the father she would not have been allowed, under normal circumstances, to name the father on the birth cert.

Dickiesam

Here's some info to go on in case anyone can find anything on the 1871 & 1881 Census for them:-

The Mother: Ann Atherton
Born: 31 Oct 1855
Place: 15 Court Woodstock Street
Father: William (Occupation: Brick Layer)
Mother: Mary (formerly Wright)


1861 Census

RG: RG09 Piece: 2654 Folio: 29 Page: 51

House 4 in Court 35, Hornby Street, Liverpool

Atherton, Will, Head, Married, M, 44, 1817, Bricklayer, Liverpool Lancashire
Atherton, Mary, Wife, Married, F, 42, 1819, Liverpool Lancashire
Atherton, Mary, Daughter, F, 12, 1849, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire
Atherton, Martha, Daughter, F, 10, 1851, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire
Atherton, Ann, Daughter, F, 5, 1856, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire
Duckworth, Ellen, Lodger, Married, F, 30, 1831, Laundress Husb At Sea, Liverpool Lancashire


1881 BMD

Birth Certificate:-

Registration District: West Derby
Sub District: Walton

Column No: 360
When & Where: Fourth February 1881 Workhouse Walton
Name: Mary
Male/Female: Girl
Name & Surname of Father: --------
Name, Surname & Maiden Surname of Mother: Ann Atherton Domestic Servant of Liverpool
Occupation of Father: --------
Signature, Description & Residence of Informant: The mark of Ann Atherton Mother Workhouse Walton
When registered: Fifteenth February 1881
Registrar: Wallace Smith Deputy Registrar


1883 BMD

Marriage Certificate:-

Date: 14 May 1883
Groom: Daniel Naylor, Bachelor, Slater, 15 Virgil Street
Bride: Ann Atherton, Spinster, 13 Virgil Street
Groom's Father: Robert Naylor, Slater
Bride's Father: William Atherton, Bricklayer
Witnesses: Richard Atherton & Martha Lewis
Church: All Saints C of E, Liverpool


1891 Census

RG: RG12 Piece: 2945 Folio: 12 Page: 19

20a, China Street, Everton, Liverpool

Naylor, Ann, Wife, Married, F, 34, 1857, Liverpool Lancashire
Naylor, Mary, Daughter, F, 10, 1881, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire
Naylor, Daniel, Son, M, 8, 1883, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire


1901 Census

RG: RG13 Piece: 3482 Folio: 49 Page: 30

72, Cellar, China Street, Everton, Liverpool

Naylor, Daniel, Head, Married, M, 42, 1859, Slater, Liverpool Lancashire
Naylor, Ann, Wife, Married, F, 44, 1857, Liverpool Lancashire
Naylor, Daniel, Son, Single, M, 18, 1883, Carter For Fruit Merchant, Liverpool Lancashire



Blue

Free bmd have a death registration for

Dec qtr 1877 Mary Atherton age 59 Liverpool 8b 10 Worth looking for the burial to obtain a address.

Lancashire bmd have a marriage for

1872 Martha Atherton to Richard Lewis St Peters Ref 2122LP/59/258

Near to 1871 Census you may get a address from this.

On the family search 1881 Census I found this


Rd. LEWIS Head M Male 31 Dock Labourer Lancashire, England
Martha LEWIS Wife M Female 28 Lancashire, England
Irlam LEWIS Son U Male 7 Lancashire, England
Francis LEWIS Daur U Female 11 m Lancashire, England
Wm. ATHERTON Fat In Law W Male 66 Lancashire, England Brick Layer Unemployed

Source Information:
Dwelling Prince Edwin St No (9) Court (4)
Census Place Everton, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341876
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3656 / 128
Page Number 25

Thanks Katie there's a lot of good research there for me to follow up.

Blue

I had wondered how long they had lived in Virgil Street and discovered that numbers 13 and 15 weren't listed on the 1881 census, in fact after number 1 comes number 17. But Daniel was in Robsart Street anyway, so don't think the missing houses would be the answer.

When I cant find anyone on the census records I always access the Liverpool Workhouse Registers from 1868 to 1874. the family may not be recorded but its always worth ruling out that avenue. Also the 1872 Electoral roll for Liverpool and surrounding areas is another source. They are in wards and the names are in alphabetical order.

While at the record office I had a few minutes to spare so checked the 1872 Electoral Roll. There was a William Atherton listed at 5 in 8 Beau Street. So I checked the 1871 fiche.

Here you go Blue

1871 5 in 6ct Beau Street

William Adderton-Head-Mar-58-Bricklayer-Liverpool
Mary Adderton-Wife-Mar-54-Bricklayers wife-Liverpool
Mary Adderton-Daug-Unm-22-Servant-Liverpool
Ann Adderton-Daug-Unm-15-Servant-Liverpool
Martha Adderton-Daug-Unm-20-Servant-Liverpool

Hi Katie

Thanks that's a great find and just shows how a change of spelling can hide families from us in the indexes. I've been looking through the 1881 Census at some possible streets via the address indexes no luck so far but might as well make use of them as they are free for 1881. I might get the 1877 Death Certificate to see if Ann gets a mention or to see if the address might help.

It looks like William's death is one of the following:-

April/May/June
1890
74
West Derby
8b
330

April/May/June
1893
76
West Derby
8b
385

The latter one on the index for the 1891 Census is listed as Walton so he may be in the West Derby Workhouse.


Blue

The 1871 Census original does clearly say Adderton so I can't get that one corrected but I have sent FMP a correction for their transcription of the address as... Bean Street!

Blue

I found a reference to records of Chaplains Report Books for Walton Workhouse that are in the record office. I'm wondering whether the chaplain would have had an involvement in births/baptisms of children there. There are records for the period Feb 1878 to 6 Nov 1881 (353 WES/14 2).

Blue

I know this is an old post but I'm just resurrecting it and have copied what you have typed up here.

1883 BMD

Marriage Certificate:-

Date: 14 May 1883
Groom: Daniel Naylor, Bachelor, Slater, 15 Virgil Street
Bride: Ann Atherton, Spinster, 13 Virgil Street
Groom's Father: Robert Naylor, Slater
Bride's Father: William Atherton, Bricklayer
Witnesses: Richard Atherton & Martha Lewis
Church: All Saints C of E, Liverpool


In the 1881 census my John PRITCHARD was living as a nephew in the home of Richard ATHERTON and his wife Mrs ATHERTON (really it's Maria!!) (his mother Martha's sister) in Dorrington Street.

On my earlier post about all the births I mentioned that your Richard was a witness to the wedding of John and Mary Ellen along with Mary Holden, the address of both John and Mary Ellen was 26 Virgil Street married at the same church as your Daniel and Ann ATHERTON, same street, same year, same male witness.

Richard and Maria were married in 1866 both living in Springfield street. Married 21 Jan 1866 in the Parish church, parish of Liverpool. Witnesses Stephen Duggan L**s and Amelia Wilcockson. Grooms father William Atherton, boatman.

But as we've already also established earlier John's mother Martha PRITCHARD was living as a niece and a servant girl to your William ATHERTON in 1851.

In more that one census they are living near or next door to each other. They may somehow be related to William's wife.....what do you think?

I haven't really gone any further back than this, as at the moment I'm concentrating on other things but I was bored today and started reading old posts and here I am

Good one Barbara, so often fresh eyes find new results. I hope some of it is useful to Blue.

William Atherton, bricklayer's wife was called Mary Wright born c1818. I can't get my head around their connection to the Pritchards.


Blue

Neither can I....yet....but there is a definite family connection even though I am a Red.

BarbaraW wrote:Neither can I....yet....but there is a definite family connection even though I am a Red.

I would keep an open mind about a family connection - they might just have been close friends.

I'm very amateur at this, but one of the main things I think I've learned is that when people didn't have means of easy travel or communication, they just lived beside their friends. I've seen this moving together too, searched for family connections, but ended up thinking it was very far-out family or just friends. If you wanted to communicate with your friends regularly, you had to live close.

My great-grandmother went to live with her father's aunts when he went to war. She told her daughters of a rivalry with a girl of the same age who wasn't family, but the aunts loved. Sorting this has been one of my prime tasks. Turns out 30 years before the girl's grandmother hit really hard times - father, mother, twin-sister and husband died, leaving her with a young daughter. Our lot, the Whithams, seemed to have taken her in - she appears, with her daughter, as 'Boarders' on a number of censuses. They all lived together for years. Eventually the daughter and one of my grandmother's aunts married two Shackletons. The other aunt lived next door to a married Shackleton and seemed to provide a room for one of her twin (brothers). I can only explain this tale with two sets of strong friendships.

Similar to your scenario, the father of one of the Shackleton men had no father on his birth certificate. He disappeared for years. (The link Mary posted yesterday about foundling hospitals opens up a whole new avenue for search). He had no father on his marriage register entry. When my great grandfather was killed at the end of October 1916, a burnt record shows that the son enlisted in November.

I only understand all this by believing that adversity produced a fierce loyalty for friends in those days.

I've just noticed the FMP transcription mistake on the 1861 Census on this thread and corrected it. Address should be Hornby Street. This was five years ago I must have been more trusting back then


Blue

Blue70 wrote: This was five years ago I must have been more trusting back then

We've learnt such a lot in all that time haven't we?

I could quote a similar story, I firmly believed one family must have been related to another because of all the children they were godparents to on the baptisms, but turns out they must have just been a close family of friends, this being in Liverpool, but they may have even known each other back in Ireland too, but I never did find a family connection.