Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi,

I'm looking for information on Joseph Thornton and Elizabeth Rafferty. They were married in 1909. Both were 21. She lived in Sherdley Street and he lived in Beugel (thats the name on the marrage certificate) Street.
My father-in-law, George, was there son.

I am having great difficulty finding any reference to them and need a lot of help.

Regards

Chris

on the 1911 index I found an Elizabeth Thornton aged 20 and a Joseph Thornton aged 22 living in West Derby. I don't subscribe to Find my Past so can't give any more details. It might be worth buying some credits to find out if it's the right couple
Barbara

Hi and welcome to this forum

From the information in your post it sounds as though you have their marriage cert - is that correct?

If so - what were the names of their respective fathers

We are not allowed to post any 1911 info that cannot be obtained other than from the free index as it breaches FMP copyright. So as Barbara has advised - you would need to buy credits to view the entry she found

Hello Chris and welcome,
Please post the fathers' names and occupations from the marriage cert. Also whether the cert shows they are deceased and the groom's occupation.

Dickiesam

Sherdley Street was in the Paddington area, off Crown Street and long demolished. I cannot find Beugel St but Bengel St was off Mount Vernon St, running to Hall Lane, so quite close, but also demolished.
Source- Authentic Map Directory of S.Lancs [1930s]
D

Thanks for all your help. Joseph Thornton's Father was Edward. He was a general carter (as was Joseph) in Liverpool. Elizabeth Rafferty's Father was John. He was a Sugar Labourer. Elizabeth was a Launderess. They were married at the Church of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mount Vernon Street.
The address's on the marrage certificate in the 1911 census have different families living there, although my Father-in-law lived at one of the address's when he was a child (?).

Yes, it would seem to be Bengel Street.

Regards

Chris

Have a look on www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk

There you will find what I think is Elizabeth's christening father John Rafferty mother Elizabeth Powell.

You may find the parent's marriage as well.

You say you have looked at the address in the 1911 census have you also looked for the couple? People did move around a lot.

Have you looked in any other census for the couple? Sites with the census on them are paying websites. However if in the UK you can usually access Ancestry in your local library for free.

Hilary
Ed Officer

The marriage entry for 1909 shows her as Elizabeth A Rafferty

1891 census 28 Tillotson St - perhaps Elizabeth & Joseph called your father in law after her cousin George

John Rafferty 40 labourer b Galway
Elizabeth 34 b Kildare
Elizabeth A 1 b Liverpool
George Rafferty 4 nephew b London
They also had 5 lodgers
RG12; Piece: 2988; Folio 85; Page 30

1901 incorrectly indexed as Cafferty - George is now shown as son and b Liverpool

3/9 Minshull St - all children b Liverpool

John Rafferty 51 sugar refiner b Kildare (different to 1891)
Elizabeth 34 b Kildare
George 14
Elizabeth 12
John J 9
Mary F 5
RG13; Piece: 3495; Folio: 160; Page: 31

I have found them on the free 1911 index mis-transcribed as TOHRNTON
Joseph b 1889
Elizabeth b 1889
Mary Elizabeth b 1909

I then used the index to search for a Joseph Tohrnton b 1889 and used Liverpool as his birthplace and got the same match

Here's how to use the free 1911 index

USING THE FREE 1911 INDEX TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT HOUSEHOLD
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

Once you find a possible match - make a note of the county and district in which the person was living

Return to the index and in PERSONAL DETAILS - just put the surname of the family - nothing else

In LOCATION - Select the county and below it - type in the district

In OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSEHOLD - show the full name of the person you have found on the index

Click SEARCH

You will have to buy credits to view the full entry - the above instructions will only help to possibly show others of the same name in the same household

I suspect Joseph may have been illegitimate and made up a fathers name when he married so as to appear "respectable"

There is nobody of that name with a father Edward on either the 1891 or 1901 census and there is no Edward Thornton marriage on freebmd between 1875-1889

I found an 1881 entry for an Edward Thornton wife Elizabeth but Elizabeth was 48 so too old to have given birth in 1889. No children with them in 1881

The christening entry I found was for an Elizabeth A Rafferty. It was in 1888 at OL Immaculate - I think that's Our Lady of Immaculate Conception

HIlary
Ed Officer

Dear All

Thank you for all your help. There is a lot to follow up on from all your postings. I'll keep you informed )