Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I have a continuous certificate of discharge for my Grandfather George Williams who did two short trips across the Atlantic on the SS Haverford and the Empress of Ireland in the years 1904 and 1907 as a Trimmer.
His normal occupation from the 1880's until his death in the 1920' apart from WW1 Army service was as a Painter Journeyman.
My question is: His father in law James Hinds, Mariner, is the only information I have of him, obtained from George's marriage certificate.
In all probability George may have sailed on these vessels with James.
I would very much appreciate advice on getting information on James from a continuous certificate of discharge which gives the date and place of birth.

Hi,
Am I correct in assuming you are looking for information on James Hinds? If your only lead so far is George's marriage cert, some more information would be helpful such as:
Where, when and who did George Williams marry and what ages were the bride and groom? What home addresses were given for both? And have you been able to locate his bride-to-be in any census prior to the marriage?

Seems odd that George would go to sea as a Trimmer when his trade was a painter..
From Old Occupations> Trimmer:
1) Ship's crewman who 'trimmed' coal in ship's bunkers to distribute the weight evenly;
2) Dockworker who 'trimmed' grain or bulk cargo in a ship's hold to spread it out evenly.

Sounds a pretty tough job.

Dickiesam

Thanks for the reply Dickiesam
I didn't give any information on the marriage of George Williams age 22 Painter and Ellen Hinds 18 on 25th Dec 1894 at St Simons Liverpool, because I have already posted previously asking for help on finding Ellen and her father. The result being, as I have found, that there is no Ellen Hinds or James Hinds Mariner listed in the 1891 census, or indeed Ellen Hinds born around 1876. She was born in Liverpool according to 1901 and 1911 census
My Aunt believes that Ellen's mother was married more than once and so Ellen may have had a different name in 1891.
The idea of a possible record of service from "Continuous Certificate of Discharge" issued by the Board of Trade is a shot in the dark and I would like to know if anybody has knowledge of this.

I have come across a likely useful website:

http://brew.clients.ch/Seafarers.htm

Hi,
I knew Jimdene rang a bell! You have obviously checked out all births that could be Ellen. Although I wouldn't place too much reliance on her birthplace as being Liverpool. That could be a mistake on her part. For instance she might have moved from her birthplace when very young and been raised in Liverpool. She might then regard Liverpool as 'where she was from'. I found this birth in Whitehaven, Cumberland, which was a thriving seaport at that time. Births Dec 1876 > Hinds, Ellen Jane - Whitehaven - 10b - 624.

There is also the possibility that her father was dead by the time she married. The registrar didn't always note 'deceased' under the father's name. Seems some did ask the question "is your father alive" and others did not.

My curiosity makes me ask... Are you sure the mariner [trimmer] George Williams in 1904 and 1907 is the same George Williams, journeyman painter that married Ellen Hinds?

Brian

Thank you for your reply Brian
As you can imagine tracing a George Williams from Liverpool has always been a challenge, not knowing if I had the correct one. It wasn’t until the 1911 census came out that I was convinced I had the right one, when a niece turned up, which led me back to George’s sister in the 1881 census. My father William Henry is shown age 2.
The fact that three generations of Georges’ going back to 1841 were Painters was a help.
I’m not sure about the Cumberland Ellen as she doesn’t show up in the 1881 census. There is a James Hinds, but he is not a Mariner
No doubt about George going to sea in 1904 and 1907 as the Certificate of Discharge was handed down from Mum and Dad possessions after they had both died. The address shown 26 Rubens Street is also mentioned in Mum’s address book
Of course even if I can get information on James Hinds service record, his date and place of birth will be of no help, if I can’t verify blood relationship.

Hi,

Of course even if I can get information on James Hinds service record, his date and place of birth will be of no help, if I can’t verify blood relationship.

Just a quick thought.. have you checked out the National Probate Calender [Wills and Administrations] site recently added to Ancestry? It is possible James left a will when he died, naming family, wife, siblings, etc.

Dicliesam

If you go to www.nationalarchives.gov.uk under quick links on the right you will see In depth research guides. Click on that and go to the Ms and under Merchant seamen sea service records you will find some information on what may exist for Merchant Seamen.

However any records that do survive are in 3 places the National Archives, Southampton Archives and Newfoundland. The other difficulty is that if James Hinds service ended before 1913 there was no National Register of seamen before then for the preceding 56 years.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Sorry to have taken so long in replying to Brian and Hilary as I have been busy plastering and painting my Daughter's house. I am not qualified in either of these trades, but anything to save a few quid. Somewhat slowly I might add at 76.
I have checked out National probate wills, but no luck. Still looking at National Archives ships and crew records though.
Thanks once again for all replies
Jim