Please help me to find Polly Mellon (I am from Denmark)

[Danish]

Dear Blue

That is fantastic informations!!! I am very excited, as it seems to be that family (from Ireland) - but as you suggest, it will be more clear when I get the marriage certificate. But the details are really great.
It is, for me, interesting how the Mellon name changes spelling almost all the time, during times, it seems like 'they are spelling as they hear it', the people writing it down.

I think it is an interesting story that my grand grand grandfather, James Morrison/Jens Mogensen went all the way - those days - to Liverpool/Scotland to work. How and why he got there is interesting (I am searching whether there is any informations in Denmark)? But apparently Margaret got pregnant as a very young woman, and I guess James must have met her there.

So if they were from Ireland, why would they go to Liverpool? To go to another country (migrate) or to get work during the hard times in Ireland?

Thanks for making it possible for me to getting all these informations!

Best regards
Mellon/Danish

[Blue70]

Irish people first started coming to Liverpool in large numbers after the turmoil of the rebellion of 1798. This date marked the beginning of a regular flow of Irish migrants that would transform Liverpool's population, culture and even the local accent. It was easy for the Irish to get a ship to Liverpool. Liverpool was an expanding and successful port city. A lot of people going to America would go from Liverpool. Liverpool had a well established Irish community by the 1840s with most Irish men employed as dock labourers or seamen. Liverpool received its largest influx of Irish migrants during the Great Famine of the late 1840s. Irish people at that time were not only looking for work or to travel on to America but they were starving and needed medical attention.

After the Famine Irish people continued to settle or pass through Liverpool. Most people in Ireland lived off the land in rural communities. There were only a few cities and not much industry to provide employment for people. Generation after generation of Irish people had to leave Ireland to find work elsewhere because work opportunities were poor in Ireland. Many Liverpool people have Irish ancestors including John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Many Scottish, Welsh and Manx people moved to Liverpool too. The Scandinavians who settled in Liverpool were usually seamen. Other people who settled in Liverpool were Germans, Italians, Jews from Poland and Russia, Africans, West Indians and Chinese.


Blue

[Danish]

Dear Blue

Thank you, excellent information, and I now see there is a Scandinavian Church in Liverpool.

You told me - and I saw the clip/pics - of when Polly was baptised, and it was not in St Paul de Vincent, which she told her self in Denmark, she told them both girls were baptised there, but that have probably been a mistake.
Where did you get those wonderful clip, if I may ask?

I think it is very exciting if i turns out that James and Jane Mallan/Mellen/Mellon are from Belfast or nearby, when I get further information from the GRO is it then possible to see what kind of work they had? I guess they left for Liverpool all together, but in what year? Of course before 1860 according to your informations, since James and Jane's daughther is getting married in Liverpool.

I think I have so much information that I have taken a descision to make a book for all the Danish family members. Also thanks to you!

Best regards
Mellon/Danish

[Blue70]

All the original records posted are available to view on the Ancestry website. Sometimes Ancestry has free weekends when you can view and download records free without having a subscription. Next time they have a free weekend (I don't know when the next one will be) you could look at all their records for free. Ancestry has a lot of scans of baptisms, marriages and burials from Liverpool registers that are stored in the Liverpool Record Office. They have census records for England for 1841-1911.

It is more difficult with Irish records because a lot of records were destroyed. You won't be able to look at Irish census records for this family as they won't have survived. Some church records (baptisms) may exist for the family. There are two main websites of Irish RC records one is free and the other charges money to view records. Neither is complete and people are lucky if they can find their ancestors in the records. It can be quite frustrating.

http://registers.nli.ie

This website has free images but at the moment there is no search facility


http://www.rootsireland.ie

This website you have to pay but you get transcripts not images


I can't see the family on the 1851 Census in England. The family on the 1861 Census in Charters Street looks like the family and if we can prove it is the right family they must have come to Liverpool in the 1850s. We can't say when exactly. The marriage certificate should say what work they did. Both St Peter's RC and St Vincent de Paul RC still exist in Liverpool. St Peter's in Seel Street is now a pub/restaurant called Alma de Cuba. St Vincent's is still a church.


Blue

[Danish]

Dear Blue

Thank you - when I know more from the GRO I hope new things will appear.
I did'nt know that it was so hard to gain data in Ireland, but good anyway to get that link, and hopefully one day I may be lucky.

You and others have been very helpful in the research.
May I ask for your address, please, because I would very much like to send a 'thanks' for your extraordinary kindness and helpfulness? My email is kme [at] @ucsj.dk

Best regards
Mellon/Danish

Email address amended to prevent spamming, change the [at] to @ to use. MA

[Blue70]

Hi Danish

I've just sent you an e-mail.

Regards,

Blue

[Blue70]

At 64 Portland Street on the 1881 Census there is a Catherine Dunford born in Belfast c1843. She is the Catherine Mallon who married John Dunford in 1860 at St Nicholas RC Liverpool. Her father was called James. She can't be the Catherine Mallon the unmarried aunt from the 1871 Census perhaps she is another sister of Margaret and Elizabeth?


Blue

[Danish]

So 'one Catherine' could be the sister to Margaret and the other one the sister to her father or mother?

[Blue70]

Yes so there were three Mallons in Portland Street in 1881:-

58 Portland Street - Elizabeth Norton
64 Portland Street - Catherine Dunford
Court 6 House 1 Portland Street - Jane Mallon

So these appear to be related but were they related to the Morrisons? We'll have to wait and see if Margaret's father was called James.


Blue

[MaryA]

Blue's doing a great job, I can't really add to it all. Just wanted to mention regarding your comment of spellings changing, this is something we have often found. Many of our ancestors were illiterate and when they spoke their name - often perhaps with an Irish or other accent - it would have been down to the census enumerator, or the registrar or parish priest/vicar to write it down as they thought best.

As for somebody moving from Scotland to England, they may have gone where the work was at the time, particularly if they were mariners or similar occupation.

[Danish]

Dear Mary

Thank you - yes great help from mane researches, and Blue has done a tremendous job.
The knowledges and the certificates/copys will now be shared and knowing about the name is very exciting.

Yes, I can see that how names has changes as you explain.
I am now searching to gain knowledge about Scandinavian seamen (Danish) in Liverpool, and other places in GB, e.g. Scotland as Blue has shown me James might have been working. Why did they go there from Denmark (trade, the navy, fishing...), and why did they go back to Denmark some years later, around 1871?

It is interesting to see the Danish Christening records, Polly (Mary Ann) and her sister Ellen both were Catholics (baptised), but became protestans as almost all were in Denmark. Both had their Christening when they were about 13 years old. Of all the childeren I can see that (poor) Ellen was the only one getting low grades in 'skills and knowledges'. At that time all the children got grades, from the priest, in 'skill and knowledge' and 'behavior'. It might have been because of the language skill.

Best regards
Mellon/Danish

[Danish]

Dear Blue

I was thinking that perhaps Catherine Mallen, which in the Census 1871 says aunt, could perhaps be aunt to the children, and not aunt to Margaret? So that she is the older sister to Magaret. But she is not in the Census 1861, where the other sister Elisabeth (10 year older than Magaret) is listed, could that be that Catherine is working outside, living another place (18 years old) in Liverpool?

Great news to all following and helping!
I got in contact with one from the Mellon family, a person I did not know, and had a talk today - she is too a relative to Margaret and James (Jens) in Denmark (and they had Polly and other children). This lady said that her relative was a younger sister to Polly, and she has a picture of 'Margaret in Liverpool'.
That is absolutely a big surprise - who would have thought so? It will then have been a picture from before 1870 - I will see one day and let you know.

Best regards
Mellon/Danish

[Bertieone]

Hi Danish,

I know you will have this information from the Danish records I can access, put up for the forum crew.


Name:
Jens Mogensen
Gender:
Male
Baptism Date:
9 okt 1836 (9 Oct 1836)
Baptism Place:
, Hornbaek, Frederiksborg, Denmark
Father:
Mogens Isaksen
Mother:
Ellen Marie Larsdr


Name:
Mogens Isaksen
Gender:
Male
Age:
30
Birth Date:
1804
Marriage Date:
21 feb 1834
Marriage Place:
, Hornbaek, Frederiksborg, Denmark
Spouse:
Ellen Marie Larsdr

[Bertieone]

This could be the same James Morrison, Blue found. Ship departed from Liverpool, which might suggest where James signed up and was living.

Canada, Seafarers of the Atlantic Provinces.


Name:
James Morrison
Record Type:
Crew
Age:
29
Birth Year:
abt 1838
Birth Place:
Denmark
Vessel Name:
Zimi
Vessel Type:
Ship
Voyage Departure Date:
15 May 1867
Voyage Departure Port:
Liverpool, England
Voyage Arrival Date:
5 Aug 1867
Voyage Arrival Port:
Greenock, Scotland
Vessel Registration Number:
J864067
Vessel Registration Place:
St. John, New Brunswick
Year Vessel Constructed:
1864
Date Joined Present Ship:
13 May 1867
Place Joined Present Ship:
Liverpool, England
Crew Number:
7
Literacy:
Signed with an 'X'
Completed What Signed On To Do?:
Yes
Discharge Date:
5 Aug 1867
Discharge Place:
Greenock, Scotland
Discharge:
Discharged at end of voyage
Last Discharge Date:
15 Apr 1867
Last Discharge Place:
London, England
Registry of Last Ship:
St. John, New Brunswick
Company From Last Ship:
0
Capacity (Rank):
Able-bodied Seaman

[Danish]

Dear Bert

Thank you, that is very interesting for me to know - and I am amazed that the information is availible, that you can track where James Morrison signed up and lived. Yes, it gives a bigger picture together with the information from Blue. I wondered why this Danish fisherman would go to England to work, and what he did there? I think he must have arrived in England around 1860.

Dear Bert and Blue
Today I had a talk with a Danish woman, and she told me that her late father (son to a daughter - born in Denmark - of Margaret and Jens) did some research, and she had data said that James P. Morrison (the son of Margaret and James) was baptised Dec. the 2th at St Peter RC - but she did not know about the others, and that Margaret - and the name - is from Ireland. Are you able to find James P Morrison in 'the book'? That would be perfect, and then I would have the copy of all three of them (Ellen, Mary Ann (Polly) and James).

Best regards
Mellon/Danish

[Blue70]

Found it. Ancestry have transcribed the surname as Marrison:-


St Peter RC





Blue

[Danish]

Thanks Blue, well done. I appreciate it a lot!
I see now the challenge with spelling, and how one has to think about and around it.
I can se it says Dec 15, but the next is unclear to me, is it the 28. of January, then it must be 1871, or do I read it wrong?
This Peter (Jacobus) died 29 years old, as fisherman he drowned in the Oresund in 1900 (between Denmark and Sweden).

Anyway, soon after this birth I guess they all five of them left for Denmark.

Best regards
Mellon/Danish

[Blue70]

Ancestry has the baptism date as 28 Dec 1870. I'm not certain but I think the word after 28 "mensis ejusdem" is probably Latin for "same month".


Blue

[Danish]

Thank you Blue.
I just had a funny and perhaps not that serious question, well since Paul McCartney came from Liverpool (and Irish I suppose), were there many McCartneys around 1861, since Jane Mallon had a Mary McCartney and son Daniel as lodger, would they be in family with the beatle or is that name so common?


Best regards

Mellon/Danish

[Blue70]

There are some family trees on Ancestry that include Paul McCartney's ancestors. Those McCartneys are not mentioned. There were a lot of Lennons and McCartneys in Liverpool and many were not related.


Blue