Keating family tree

[Hilary]

Henry Lowman married Mary Ellen Keeton (Ancestry transcription) on 11 October 1880. No church given listed as England Select marriages. I looked it up on LancashireBMD and it was at St Peter C. Of E Liverpool. Their transcription of Mary Ellen's surname is Kecton.

The age on the marriage certificate will be the age John gave and may not be his correct age. People added years or lost years to suit the circumstance. A friend of mine had great difficult with an ancestor's age. In the end it turned out he had lost 7 years at marriage so as to be closer to his wife's age. He never let on and was buried as being 7 years younger than he actually was.

I haven't quite grasped the whole story but I would suggest having sight of the Marriage I found given above would be a good idea. I would also look for a birth in 1878/79 ish possibly with a mangled Keating spelling either deliberately or by the transcribers.

[MaryA]

There are many years missing for St Peters on Ancestry. If I have the spare time tomorrow I will check the marriage, although it would seem that the link to the Familysearch site that Bert gave, has given quite a full transcript, including ages. Hopefully it will give the additional information of addresses and witnesses.

[Bertieone]

The 1911 census, Jenkinson St has Mary Ellen having 2 children in her marriage to Henry Lowman,

Henricus Richardus Lowman
Birth
29 Dec 1884
Baptism
31 Dec 1884
St Mary's,
Henrici Lowman
Maria Helena Keating

Mary Theresa Ann Lowman
Birth, 25 Feb, 1883
Baptism, 17 March, 1883
St Mary's
Henrici Lowman
Maria Ellena Keating

Mary Theresa Ann was also baptised at St Peter's, 19 March 1883, Upper Milk St

[Bertieone]

Mary Helen Keating
Birth
24 Aug 1855
Baptism
9 Sep 1855
St Mary's,
Father
John Keating
Mother
Mary Keating

Godparents, Lawrence Keating, Mary Doyle.

[AllanKeating]

Thank you all for all your fantastic help. I know that either Bertione or MaryA or both have alluded to the fact that people were economical with the truth where there ages are concerned but that didn't seem specific enough to go on. And as you know I tried to make some sense of all the information in a trail through the census records but there was a mystery age gap. Now that Hilary has reinforced that argument about the fact that people do hide their age there is a certain logic in the trail.

Basically there are entries in 1881, 1891 and 1901 for a plausible John Keating (in various spellings) but all connected with the same household (the Keating/Lowman one) except that this John Keating appears 6 or 7 years too old.
But then in 1911 the age suddenly matches the marriage and death certificates I have. It occurs to me that the census details in the three earlier censuses would have been completed by the head of the family at that time and not by John himself but the 1911 census was the first one where he was the head and suddenly he has lost that 7 years or so but it is clearly the same household as Mary Lowman nee Keating is still present.
Clearly I have to try and find a birth certificate for the John Keating born around 1878/9 and order one up.
Hope springs eternal.

[MaryA]

11 October 1880 St Peters
Henry Lowman 26 Bachelor, Storekeeper, Vernon Street
Father Thomas Lowman, Sailmaker
married
Mary Ellen Keeton, 20 Spinster, Vernon Street
Father John Keeton, Painter
Witnesses George Johnston and Sarah Ann Martin

[Bertieone]

Well done Mary,

That appears to be Henry's correct age, unlike the 1881&91 census.

His mothers name was Jane, 1861 census, perhaps buried at Walton Park 1875, dying in the Borough Gaol.

[AllanKeating]

Thanks Mary. I received the marriage certificate today for Thomas Flanagan and Mary Ann Kelly and that appears to be the right one and I have now ordered a birth certificate for John Keating with a birthdate of 1879 giving the mother and father but not being specific about any Vol or page as there were a number of possible candidates.
By the way I had a second reply from Ancestry.co.uk support about being able to search by Piece and Page etc. The first reply just told me it wasn't possible to which I replied that it must be as you can do it. Now I have a second reply telling me the first person was wrong and that i need to use the card catalogue and I can now see those boxes when I do that.
I am off somewhere now for a couple of days so will reluctantly have to take a break from family tree!!

Thanks also to Bertione for the fascinating coroner information. You must all give me a list of these various sources you have at some time as there is clearly a lot more depth in some sources then just names and dates etc.

[MaryA]

By the way I had a second reply from Ancestry.co.uk support about being able to search by Piece and Page etc. The first reply just told me it wasn't possible

They are talking out of their ..... as usual!

You must all give me a list of these various sources you have at some time

You need to apply for a Lancashire Library Card, with this you can search the old newspapers via their site.

Enjoy yourself.