William Driver about 1853-1857 Manchester/Liverpool

[colette]

Hi looks like Thomas's folks were William Driver & Elizabeth 1841 they lived at 85 Stott St Hulme Manchester

William age 30 Blacksmith n Yorkshire
Elizabeth age 30 b Lancs
Lester age 13 b Lancs
THOMAS AGE 11 Lancs
Benjamin age 9 Lancs
John age7 Lancs
James age 3 Lancs
Ellen age 4 Lancs
Elizabeth age 1 Lancs
Ann age 1 Lancs

1851 is really hard to read as page is all red no Thomas at home

1861 William Street Birkenhead

William Driver age 52 Blacksmith b Yorkshire Keighley ???
Elizabeth age 54 b Bolton
John age 26 Hammerman
William age 14 Apprentice to Smith
Grandaughter Ellen Driver age 11 b Manchester

so theres the other child..

To me its looking like both parents may have died

1871 14 Davis St Birkenhead
William Driver age 63 Smith b Yorkshire
Wife Margaret age 58 b Ireland

cannot find a second marriage to this Margaret

[simone]

Daughter Ellen reg
free bmd
Births Mar 1850
Driver Ellen Manchester 20 516



Lancs BMD

DRIVER Ellen
Ancoats
Manchester
ANC/47/23


so where are they in 1851

[simone]

1861 William Street Birkenhead

William Driver age 52 Blacksmith b Yorkshire Keighley ???
Elizabeth age 54 b Bolton
John age 26 Hammerman
William age 14 Apprentice to Smith
Grandaughter Ellen Driver age 11 b Manchester

so theres the other child..

To me its looking like both parents may have died

oh well done Col, and now we are in Birkenhead where the other children are registered

I think we've got there (might known we'd get a Yorkshire link )

don't you love it when something comes together.... cup of tea now!

[simone]

wouldn't mind I was looking at that red page for ages yesterday.... doing all sorts of squinty things to try and see it can't even remember why now.. think it was something to do with Lester Driver

didn't Ancestry used to have something where you could turn an image into a negative in order to see it better

Simone x

[colette]

I am walking down Edward Street in Manchester now in 1851 if anyone else wants to look it Ancoats District 1m..

no 88
Thomas POTTER age 39 b c 1811 looks like Blampton Lancs ??? Railway Horse Keeper
Elizabeth formaly Lever age 41
Stepson Thomas Lever age 20
Son George Potter age 13
Dau Ellen Potter age 8
Son Charles Potter age 3

Possible that Thomas was William Potters brother...

I will keep walking

[colette]

Hi

Just thourght to ask did it give a number Edward Street on the birth cert you have ?

xx

[MaryA]

Make an enquiry on this friendly site for your enquiry about the marriage.
http://manchesterfamilyhist.proboards.com/

[simone]

1851 census
thought i had found them
found a Thomas and Margaret with daughter Ellen age 10 months.. no surname, but says Thomas is tailor also says born Ireland... but it could it be just an assumption made by enumerator funny but Ellen 10 months old too which is about right
HO107; Piece: 2221; Folio: 151; Page: 27;

oh well back to drawing board

[simone]

Make an enquiry on this friendly site for your enquiry about the marriage.
http://manchesterfamilyhist.proboards.com/

perhaps they could look at the baptisms too, especially the one for Ellen

[lollyrs]

Collette
quote " looks like Thomas's folks were William Driver & Elizabeth 1841 they lived at 85 Stott St Hulme Manchester"

I am not sure this is right. I am looking for William Drivers father Thomas not the other way around. Did I misread this ?
In 1861 William would have been about 11 and his father Thomas in his 30's or 40's.

William age 30 Blacksmith n Yorkshire
Elizabeth age 30 b Lancs
Lester age 13 b Lancs
THOMAS AGE 11 Lancs
Benjamin age 9 Lancs
John age7 Lancs
James age 3 Lancs
Ellen age 4 Lancs
Elizabeth age 1 Lancs
Ann age 1 Lancs

1851 is really hard to read as page is all red no Thomas at home
"

[simone]

Hi Lorraine

The entry you have posted, copied from Colette's post is from 1841... so Colette is right..

Thomas age 11 on this census, so born c 1830, is father to William born 1852.. So Colette has just gone back another generation to those you knew about..
i.e William Driver b c 1810, Yorkshire
his son Thomas b c 1830
and then his son William born 1852

[lollyrs]

ah I see now I have so much information now I'm almost lost in it

Many thanks I have sent a request to the manchester group to see if they can help me with certificates as Mary suggested.

I knew fresh eyes would help I just didnt realise how much interest I would get from my sticky problem

Cant thank you all enough

Lorraine

[colette]

Manchester's "Unfilmed" 1851 Census
Family historians with ancestors in mid-19th century Manchester face a particular difficulty. Following transfer of the enumeration books to the Home Office in London and analysis of the contents, the area where the books were stored was flooded and the books were badly damaged. Some of the books were in such poor condition that it was not considered worth filming them. Others were filmed but much of the image appears blackened and the writing is not decipherable. Since the original books were considered too fragile to permit public access, the returns relating to over 200,000 people were effectively unavailable

Recovering the Lost Souls
In 1991 Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society secured the agreement of the (then) Public Record Office to access the damaged returns and transcribe such information as might still be legible. This was the start of a 14 year project which concluded in 2005 with the publication of the final transcripts. Despite the damage, details of some 82% of the 217,717 persons whom the statisticians had counted had been recovered

I bet Thomas & Margaret are in the 18% thats why we cannot locate them

xx

[lollyrs]

thats could make a lot of sense to me

Thanks

Lorraine

[lollyrs]

ok next step

I keep losing posts so apologies if this turns up again....

From Collettes information if the lineage is William born 1810 Thomas born 1830 William born 1852
then the first entry in 1840 could be right William Driver blacksmith yorks with son Thomas aged 11.

but when we get to 1861 in Birkenhead William snr is now 52 and still a blacksmith which ,looks like a match there is no Thomas but William aged 14 and a smiths apprentice is the son of William and this isnt right as I know the father is william.

what do you think ?

Lorraine ?

[colette]

Hi just asking incase you missed the post did it give a house number for Edward Street..

xx

[colette]

Hi

William Driver and Elizabeth had many children

Lester 1828
Thomas
Benjamin
John
Ellen
Elizabeth
Ann
James
Sarah
William 1847

William in 1861 is William the Blacksmiths son hes 14 the last child he had..he would be Thomas's little brother..

[lollyrs]

Hi Lorraine

The certificates I posted are in the Liverpool records on Ancestry There are West Yorkshire ones on there .

I had a look at Driver families in Yorkshire.... seems to me that they all were bobbing back and forth between Yorkshire and Lancashire, a right mixture of birth places for the children

wish I could find that Thomas, the whitesmith one, for definite

Simone x

Does this mean that you can actually see certificates in ancestry ? - I have never managed to find anything other than the references to enable me to send away fro stuff. I dont know what you mean by Liverpool records on ancestry ? Is there more information I could be using instead of sending away for documents ?

Thanks

Lorraine

[simone]

Hi Lorraine

There is a card catalogue on Ancestry to help you search for any relevant databases

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/alldblist.aspx

If you key Liverpool as search term all the databases come up..

If any of your certificates are on there you can view them..

here are the Liverpool ones

http://bit.ly/x0ojf8

Simone x

[lollyrs]

Thanks Simone am still finding my way around. I have linked lots of the driver family to the potter family via Thomas Driver and Margaret Potter. Have sent off for their wedding details Manchester 1849. If Thomas is a whitesmith they are my folks. Interestingly most of his brothers and nephews were all blacksmiths.
I have found 4 children for Thomas and Margaret 3 christened in Manchester cathedral Ellen 1850 William 1852 Jeremiah 1854 and Sarah 1858. I found the children in 1861 Ellen living with her Driver grandparents in 26 William Street Birkenhead and William Jeremiah and Sarah living with their Potter grandparents at 36 Prospect place West Derby.
In 1871 the 3 children still live with grandparents Potter at Gleave street Everton (not far from where I first found my william driver in everton in 1881) I think the Birkenhead issue always bothered me, but that is probably because the drivers side of the family started in Yorks/Hulme. The family then moved to Manchester, then birkenhead, newtown in Makerfield and Bury. So I guess the kids moved between family members as and when the need arose. I have traced Thomas's siblings across these areas and have found much information. Sadly Thomas and Margaret dont appear in any census records at all, so they were either on the road all the time or passed away.

Many thanks for all your kind help

Lorraine