James Meehan (1889-1925)

Post by **colette** » 14 Mar 2011 20:17

Hi Greg

I did not know if you knew who your Grandmother was you see .. this is why i asked, as we have had a few people who just guess.

So you indeed have the right boy with Uncle Patrick and Aunty Jane..

who looks like hsi parents were John Meehan & Ann Flannery

other children,, Patrick 1890 bap St Brigid, Mary Ann 1893 Bap Our Lady Of RECONCILIATION, Elizabeth 1894 bap St Augustine and another Mary 1898 , the only birth reg i can see in 1898 is for a Mary Jane...

Prob we have is not seeing John & Ann on the census or James and brother Patrick on the 1891.

Ann Flannery was born in County Mayo c1859 parents James & Ann she was living in Kew St in 1881..her dad aged 42 and mum aged 40, i am wondering if they went back over to Ireland as i cannot see them in 1891.. and maybe Ann and John paid them a few visits..this maybe why they are missing so much.

i'll keep digging

xx

Post by **GRTexas** » 14 Mar 2011 21:25

Hilary,

Can you help direct me to the source of your information regarding James being a domestic servant at St Thomas Home, Hesketh Street, Preston in 1911? I am drawing a blank on this search.

Greg

Post by **MaryA** » 14 Mar 2011 21:37

Put James and Meehan in the name boxes and HESKETH STREET in the Residential Place and choose the drop down County of Lancashire.

It shows up James, age 21 in that address - Institution as Schedule Type

Post by **jan44** » 14 Mar 2011 22:10

I have found The Luneside hospital in Lancaster (on CD) RG13 folio 3989 119 page 1. (1901).

The matron was Sarah Hardy age 37 bn Bradford Yorkshire.

Jan

Post by **GRTexas** » 14 Mar 2011 22:31

MaryA,

I am sorry, in which website (Search engine) am I inserting this information? Is this the official 1911 website page?

Greg

Post by **MaryA** » 14 Mar 2011 22:59

GRTexas wrote: Is this the official 1911 website page?

Yes http://www.1911census.co.uk/

Post by **colette** » 14 Mar 2011 23:06

Hi Greg

Most of the boys at St Thomas Brothers Of Charity Home were from Liverpool

St Thomas's Home Industrial SCHOOL FOR ROMAN CATHOLIC BOYS, ASHTON-ON-RIBBLE, PRESTON, lancashire
Certified 29th May 1901 for 65 boys, re-certified 24th October, 1903 for 150 boys. Cessation of certification, or closure 1924.

Auxiliary Home, Tulketh Hall, Cannon Hill Ashton, Preston, Lancs.

Certified 29th May, 1901 for 30 boys re-certified 10th June 1914, Cessation of certification, or closure 1923.

Care of Brothers of Charity

The buildings cover nearly three acres of ground. The historic and ancient Tulketh Hall is a cosy home for poor and friendless working boys who are carefully tended by the brothers in charge. It stands on the site of the ancient hospice of St Mary Magdalene, built about the year 1110. The Industrial School stands in the ground of Tulketh Hall and is certified for 150 boys, the original building cost £3,000 and have been extended at a further cost of £4,000. The buildings are model in every way, replete with the most modern and scientific appliances in every department. The Sanitation is perfect, the air pure and bracing and it possesses the advantage of a very spacious and well filled gymnasium.

STAFF

1903 - Brother Palladius Gibson and 5 Brothers of Charity ; Schoolmaster, Mr J. Thompson

xx

Post by **GRTexas** » 16 Mar 2011 01:45

What would be the best resource to find an abstract of a Marriage certificate for Patrick Meehan and Elizabeth Leonard that took place in Liverpool in 1920? I have been told it is in the Jul-Aug-Sep quarter, Vol. 8b. Page 143.

Should I order this from the GRO? I just need to find out the names of Patrick's parents to see if this is the right one.

The Liverpool website I was given earlier only covers up to 1901.

Greg[/url]

Post by **MaryA** » 16 Mar 2011 08:23

Having checked www.lancashirebmd.org.uk this marriage is listed as taking place "Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended". This might mean that it was in an RC church, but also that it was possibly in the Register Office. As we have no means of knowing which church it might have been, it would be difficult to check the Parish Register so it will be easier for you to order direct from the GRO which you can do with the information that you have, online at www.gro.gov.uk

The cost is £9.25 and payment can be made by debit/credit card.

PS Just for your information, the site I gave above for the Liverpool History Projects, contains details of RC marriages and baptisms only, not C of E.

Post by **colette** » 16 Mar 2011 09:48

Morning all

I think the bottom line of this is finding James and brother Patrick in 1891 with their parents.. who have to still be alive as they go on to have more children after the last being Mary Jane born in 1898.

So where are they granted John could be on a ship BUT where is Ann ??

James being born 1889 then Patrick in 1890 we know they are in Liverpool, then there is a gap of 3 years untill we see the birth of Mary Ann 1893, who must die as they have another Mary in 1898.

So could they go back and forth to Ireland ???

Question was John the son of James & Mary Meehan

1881 Carlton St Liverpool

James Meehan 40 Forman Stevedore b Ireland
Mary 40 b Ireland
Patrick 20 b Lpool
Joseph 14 b Lpool
JOHN 11 B Lpool

if so John was born 1870 and the Ann Flannery i found was born 1859 so 11 year gap between them, unless this is the wrong Ann..

Recap Anns family

1881 Kew St

James Flannery 42 Bricklayers Labourer b Ireland
Ann 40 b Ireland
ANN 22 B IRELAND
Patrick b 1860 Lpool
Michael b 1866 Lpool
James b 1874 Lpool

1871 Kew St

James Flannery 35 Labourer b Ireland
Ann 32 b Ireland
Catherine 18 b Ireland
Patrick 9 b Lpool
Michael 3 b Lpool

NO ANN AT HOME.

xx

Post by **GRTexas** » 16 Mar 2011 16:21

I have just received the baptismal records for James, Patrick, Mary Ann and Elizabeth via email.

I now have the birth date for my grandfather! I am 95% certain I am on the right line. In the absence of any living testimony, this is the best I can expect.

The baptismal record for Patrick was annotated with information about his marriage to Ann Pike on 7 April 1919 at St. Alexander in Bootle. One of the witnesses was Michael Finn, the husband of Mary Jane Meehan. I can now follow Patrick's line for other relatives.

Because of the 100 year rule for online posting, I guess I will have to search the census records after 1911 in person when I visit in May?

It is still puzzling that there are no records of John and Ann after the birth of Mary Jane in 1889.

Greg

Post by **MaryA** » 16 Mar 2011 16:43

There are no later censuses available even if you visited in person, the next for 1921 won't be available until 2022.

Did the baptism certificates not give an address for the family?

Post by **GRTexas** » 16 Mar 2011 17:06

Mary,

There was no address information on the baptismal records. Actual image or transcript.

So, the 100 year rule is for release not just online viewing. I guess because they are considered confidential?

Greg

Post by **Hilary** » 16 Mar 2011 20:46

Cenuses have a 100 year closure rule that means no-one can see them in any shape or form until the time expires. They are all locked up!

You could hopefully follow the family in the 20th century via directories which list heads of households. In conjunction with these you could use electoral rolls.

You could also follow families via the local church to their address hopefully finding the baptisms and marriages of their children

For burials your first port of call would be the Ford Cemetery records these are indexed and available at both Liverpool Record Office and Crosby library. They are not on line. After that it would be a case of checking individual cemeteries - again not online.

You can look for possible mariages, deaths and births via ancestry, freebmd and lancashirebmd.

I hope you have a few days allocated for research as it will take some time.

Post by **GRTexas** » 16 Mar 2011 21:00

Hilary,

I will be staying in Longton for about 9 days in May. I will spend as much time in Liverpool as it takes.

I cannot fully express my gratitude to you, MaryA, Colette and all of the others on this forum for your assistance.

I am taking my mother out to dinner tomorrow (St Patrick's day) to tell her all I have learned in the past three weeks. We had all given up hope of uncovering James' family history.

Greg

Post by **GRTexas** » 27 Mar 2011 02:09

Since my last posting I was able to fill in a great deal of information. I am now trying to focus on possible living relatives.

I have found descendants of my grandfather's sister Mary Jane in Wirral. What I would like to look at now are descendants of my grandfather's brother Patrick Meehan.

Patrick was born in Liverpool in 1891. He married Annie Pike (From Leeds) on 4 Apr 1919. They had six children; Mary E. (b. 1920), John James (b. 1922), Annie Meehan (b. 1923), James Patrick (b. 1926), Winifred (b. 1929) and William F. (b. 1931).

Since census records are out of the question, what resources can I draw on to locate these relatives or their descendants? Someone mentioned voting records. Can these be searched online or do I need to do this in person?

Greg

Post by **GRTexas** » 31 Mar 2011 02:43

I am still having difficulty find any trace of Patrick Meehan, his wife Annie Pike or their children. I did find that the youngest son, William F., died in 1933 (Jan-Mar, 8b, P. 934).

I have searched the Outward Bound Passenger Lists on AncestorsOnBoard.com without success. I thought they may have emigrated.

I also searched the listing of Civilian War Dead in Liverpool on LiverpoolAtWar.co.uk and did not find them. I am not certain how complete this list is. I will take this as good news, although not very helpful.

I have found possible marriage records for :
Mary E. (Liverpool N. Apr-Jun, 8b,p.783, 1943)
John (Liverpool N. Apr-Jun, 8b, p. 1004, 1945)
Winifred (Barnsley Apr-Jun, 9c, P. 576, 1946)

Short of ordering all marriage certificates from the GRO, is there any way for me to check the parent(s) of these individuals?

Greg

Post by **MaryA** » 31 Mar 2011 10:52

Sorry for the delay in replying. The Electoral Registers can only be searched at the Record Office, you would need to check by emailing them first, but I suspect that these will not be on microfilm and so will be held at the satellite site at Sandhills. You will need to work from a known address.

The only way of finding out the details of the marriages is either by ordering the certificate, from the GRO or alternatively from the Liverpool Register Office, who will probably be sympathetic if you ask for the certificates ONLY if the father's name was correct and not charge you if they discover one is wrong. Alternatively if you knew the address they were living at the time then you could check the parish registers for the nearest church to where they were living - this doesn't always work as it may have taken place in the spouse's parish.

As for the Barnsley entry, is this the Barnsley in Yorkshire or Gloucestershire? The registers at this date may still be held at the church, if indeed it was a church marriage, and there is unfortunately no means of knowing this if the record hasn't been transcribed on http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/ and I'm sorry to say that they aren't nearly as far ahead as the Lancashire site and Winifred isn't listed on there.

We did put a few suggestions together http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=8154 for tracing a living relative, Genesreunited is a good site for connecting with other researchers, and the local papers are a good resource also, google for one for Barnsley.

Post by **MaryA** » 31 Mar 2011 11:18

If you do decide to advertise in the Liverpool Echo, Old Pals Section online, you may be looking to connect with descendants of the Mary E that you found a marriage for. If you use the birth indexes with the male surname in the box and Meehan in the "Mother's Maiden name" box then you should discover two children to this marriage, in the Bootle/North Liverpool areas.

Similarly three possible children to John's marriage. You could then search for more recent marriages for these and then advertise for possible living people. Hopefully these descendants may know if they belong to the right line.

Post by **taj1** » 17 May 2011 23:30

Hi Greg

Just to let you know that I have Meehans in my family .For months I could not find them

On the census from 1871 ,not one is spelt Meehan.

1871 Meekham
1881 Meighan
1891 Mahon .

Just a thought as I was reading all your post .

I was told by someone that as the Irish had such strong accents E sounds like A & vice versa hence the results & going round in circles.