certificates for Thomas Smith 1st April 1900

[dawnelyndadawe]

Have you found him on the incoming shipping lists to the UK?

Is s seaman's card one with lots of details ? Does it give the names of the ships he was on and if it does have you checked the crew lists for those ships to see if there are any more details that could help?

Hi Hilary

You name it i have paid for it!
His seamans card is full of the ships he worked on and is listed on find my past under Merchants seaman Thos Smith Liverpool, but prior to them posting it onto find my past i paid another £54. for Southampton where the records were kept to tell me the same details.

Newfoundland is where the ships crew lists are kept and we have the full list of ships my grandfather worked on.
They have checked everyone for me, for crew details
Got really excited as the archives dept in Newfoundland said we have an address, 43, Kings Street Avonmouth, it was the house opposite where my nan lived and he was lodging in Avonmouth Bristol that cost me 125 dollars.

Just sentoff for his home guard information again nothing on it, date of birth bristol address. another £30.00

Any other ideas would be great, I am waiting for NHS records dept t send me back some information they might have on him as he worked 35 years in England. But they are proving to be a little slow i will chase them

Someone yesterday on this site gave me details for somewhere else i gave dig around another £35.00 this hobby is not cheap
Thanks again for your interest it all helps when you are trying to push water uphill
Dawne

[dawnelyndadawe]

Have you found him on the incoming shipping lists to the UK?

Is s seaman's card one with lots of details ? Does it give the names of the ships he was on and if it does have you checked the crew lists for those ships to see if there are any more details that could help?

Hi Hilary
He did a pier head jump in canada no papers worked his passage

national Enumberation Transcript books it was you yesterday who recommended to apply for the address he lived at for 35 years i am off to do that now, good info anymore like it would be really helpful

dawne

[Bertieone]

Hi Dawn,

If Thomas in adult life had to make up a fictitious character, i.e. Samuel Smith, Father, any records obtained after his marriage its unlikely the story would change, I suspect its only his marriage cert this name has appeared so far. The alternative would be, Father Unknown, not something any of us would like. A member of my family was similar in his secrecy, he couldn't and wouldn't talk about his father because he never knew who he was, which in turn never spoke much of his mother because that would lead to embarrassing situations.
I'm leaning towards Lizzie Ellen Barnsley being the mother, its strange that was the person he was with in Canada and Lizzie returned to this country in Oct 1928 and Thomas was married in April 1929,
Did she return for her sons wedding?
Do you know when Lizzie went back to Canada?
Have you tried using DS's recommended ordering system for certs, Thomas Smith, mother Lizzie Ellen Barnsley.

[dickiesam]

Could you tell us his MN record number, or all if he more than one?

[simone]

Hi Dawn,

I'm leaning towards Lizzie Ellen Barnsley being the mother, its strange that was the person he was with in Canada and Lizzie returned to this country in Oct 1928 and Thomas was married in April 1929,
Did she return for her sons wedding?
Do you know when Lizzie went back to Canada?
Have you tried using DS's recommended ordering system for certs, Thomas Smith, mother Lizzie Ellen Barnsley.

hiya Bert... I'm leaning that way too feels too coincidental... either that or Emma Smith had child between being widowed and marrying Godfrey that needed to be hidden


Simone x

[simone]

What about Macclesfield workhouse? Not unusual for an unmarried mother to give birth in the workhouse... or maybe Thomas placed here?

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Macclesfield/

admission & discharge registers 1863 -1940 held at Cheshire Archives

Simone x

[dawnelyndadawe]

Could you tell us his MN record number, or all if he more than one?

Hiya

Thos Smith discharge number from the Merchant Navy was 1109976
It was recorded on a CR2 card
Further reference BT 348

starting date on his card 30/12/1924
Some of his voyages 99130 also 97862

thanks
Dawne

[dawnelyndadawe]

Could you tell us his MN record number, or all if he more than one?

Hiya

Thos Smith discharge number from the Merchant Navy was 1109976
It was recorded on a CR2 card
Further reference BT 348

starting date on his card 30/12/1924
Some of his voyages 99130 also 97862

thanks
Dawne

I have all of his voyages on his card if any good

[dawnelyndadawe]

Hi Dawn,

I'm leaning towards Lizzie Ellen Barnsley being the mother, its strange that was the person he was with in Canada and Lizzie returned to this country in Oct 1928 and Thomas was married in April 1929,
Did she return for her sons wedding?
Do you know when Lizzie went back to Canada?
Have you tried using DS's recommended ordering system for certs, Thomas Smith, mother Lizzie Ellen Barnsley.

hiya Bert... I'm leaning that way too feels too coincidental... either that or Emma Smith had child between being widowed and marrying Godfrey that needed to be hidden


Simone x

Lizzie was young when she went to Canada, and she is on the 1911 census living in lodgings with her friend Bella Lofthouse from Londonin montreal. She travelled to Canada on her own, and met Ernest Hitz, where and how did Thomas get to Canada on his own. I do not think he is Lizzies' maybe Emma out of wedlock between two marriages but how did he get across to Canada,.
Thomas also could not wait to leave the farm as soon as he had paid his dues at approx 18 when he went off luberjacking.
He never kept in contact with anyone in contact as i do not think Lizzie was his mum, she would have been 13 years only slightly young when she had him
Dawnex

[simone]

Ahh I see Dawn... your poor grandad.. what a life eh glad he found happiness eventually with a family of his own it all must have haunted him though

If only we knew what happened to Samuel, Emma and their family. You just need one snippet of info and it may make the difference

Simone x

[dawnelyndadawe]

Ahh I see Dawn... your poor grandad.. what a life eh glad he found happiness eventually with a family of his own it all must have haunted him though

If only we knew what happened to Samuel, Emma and their family. You just need one snippet of info and it may make the difference

Simone x

i will keep digging and see what comes back from a blanket search with GRO which i have never done before i just ordered all Thomas Smith certs.

I will see what also comes back from NHS 1939 survey which i have ordered

I shall keep digging with the Smiths in Macclesfield and she what comes up
Thanks to you all again

[dickiesam]

Could you tell us his MN record number, or all if he more than one?

Hiya

Thos Smith discharge number from the Merchant Navy was 1109976
It was recorded on a CR2 card
Further reference BT 348

starting date on his card 30/12/1924
Some of his voyages 99130 also 97862

thanks
Dawne

Thanks for that info Dawne. From the ships' ID numbers on Thomas' record card he seems to have worked mainly on Elder & Fyffe Line vessels, most of which could be loosely described as 'banana boats' due to the fact that they were vessels with refrigerated holds for the transport of tropical fruit which would be mainly bananas.

You have probably done this already, but googling the vessels' names such as SS Kastalia [ID-141923], SS Ariguani [ID-148890] and SS Carare [ID-147345], will produce photographs of those ships. This site http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum.php will enable you to identify most vessels from their ID number.

[dawnelyndadawe]

Could you tell us his MN record number, or all if he more than one?

Hiya

Thos Smith discharge number from the Merchant Navy was 1109976
It was recorded on a CR2 card
Further reference BT 348

starting date on his card 30/12/1924
Some of his voyages 99130 also 97862

thanks
Dawne

Thanks for that info Dawne. From the ships' ID numbers on Thomas' record card he seems to have worked mainly on Elder & Fyffe Line vessels, most of which could be loosely described as 'banana boats' due to the fact that they were vessels with refrigerated holds for the transport of tropical fruit which would be mainly bananas.

You have probably done this already, but googling the vessels' names such as SS Kastalia [ID-141923], SS Ariguani [ID-148890] and SS Carare [ID-147345], will produce photographs of those ships. This site http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum.php will enable you to identify most vessels from their ID number.

Thanks Dickie

Useful info, i can always look at the ships he was on!!!

[simone]

putting this here.. maybe DS can enlighten us? would this be the types of ships Thomas was working on?

on Ancestry... Certficate of Competancy as second Mate for foreign going steamships.

Thomas Smyth
Estimated Age: 21
Birth Date: 1902
Birth Place: Liverpool
Issue Date: 23 Nov 1923
Issue Port: Liverpool
Certificate Number: 0017375


having said that.. before we get excited... there is a Thomas Smyth b 1902 to Thomas and Margaret in Liverpool... was hoping for a marriage in teh records to see what he ended up doing, but none up to 1921.

Looking at the death indexes there was more than one Thomas Smyth b 1902..

there's also a Thomas Smyth in Canadian Passeger lists

Simone x

[simone]

There's a Catherine Smyth b 1910 in Liverpool.
A Catherine Ellen Smyth b 1902
A Catherine Smyth b 1910 with her mum Mary and other siblings, William 6, Mary 3, no Thomas RG14; Piece: 22143
A Catherine Smyth on New York Passenger lists.

[dickiesam]

putting this here.. maybe DS can enlighten us? would this be the types of ships Thomas was working on?

on Ancestry... Certficate of Competancy as second Mate for foreign going steamships.

Thomas Smyth
Estimated Age: 21
Birth Date: 1902
Birth Place: Liverpool
Issue Date: 23 Nov 1923
Issue Port: Liverpool
Certificate Number: 0017375
Simone x

Sorry ladies... Don't think it is the same man!

Last name: SMYTH
First names: Thomas
Date of birth: 3rd September 1902
Place of birth: Liverpool
County/country of birth: Lancashire
Card type: CR10
Identity certificate no.: 212940
Series:BT350; Date range:1918-1921

[simone]

Thanks Brian . No such luck eh

[dawnelyndadawe]

putting this here.. maybe DS can enlighten us? would this be the types of ships Thomas was working on?

on Ancestry... Certficate of Competancy as second Mate for foreign going steamships.

Thomas Smyth
Estimated Age: 21
Birth Date: 1902
Birth Place: Liverpool
Issue Date: 23 Nov 1923
Issue Port: Liverpool
Certificate Number: 0017375
Simone x

Sorry ladies... Don't think it is the same man!

Last name: SMYTH
First names: Thomas
Date of birth: 3rd September 1902
Place of birth: Liverpool
County/country of birth: Lancashire
Card type: CR10
Identity certificate no.: 212940
Series:BT350; Date range:1918-1921

Hiya Dickie,

This is what it says in total on Thos Smith Merchant Seamans card

Date of engagement 30th Dec 1924 Avonmouth Bristol
Dis A Number 1109976
NR35 1935
CR2
Thos Smith 1900 Liverpool
Trimer? is this correct as his job on ships

Turconionian 99130 Avonmouth 30.12.1924
97862 - 30.7.1925- The Welshman-Crew List at the National Archives BT99/3799
Bayano - 19.10.1925
99849 - 18.12.1925-
141923 - 1.2.1926-Liverpool: SS Kastalia
Casanane!!?? - 27.3.1926
148890 - 22.5.1926- Bristol: SS Ariguani
147345 - 28.8.1926- S.S. Orator
129418 - 4.1.1929- S.S "Salacia" Donaldson Line

I am sending you these ships as i cannot seem to find any photos or names relating to them on the site you sent me
Thanks again
Dawne

[dickiesam]

Hi Dawne,
That occupation is Trimmer. I believe he would have been responsible for making sure the coal was correctly moved in the bunkers to 'trim' the balance of the ship as coal was being used to fire the boilers. Coal was used as a form of ballast and allowing coal to be used from just one side of a bunker could seriously affect the 'trim' [balance] of a vessel.

Regarding pictures of ships, as I said in my post you have to google the name of the vessel. Pictures are not on the Clip site where you identified the ships so you must use a new search screen in your browser. Thus.... googling SS Ariguani will give you http://www.flickr.com/photos/16389551@N04/5997532000/
and:
https://www.google.ie/search?q=SS+arigu ... 80&bih=814

SS Salacia will give you http://www.flickr.com/photos/16389551@N04/5997532000/
SS Kastalia will give you http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/v ... p?id=18050
SS Casanare will give you http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?115933
SS Bayano will give you http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/v ... sp?id=3542

Not all ships' photos are available online.

[dickiesam]

About Trimmers....

http://www.barrymerchantseamen.org.uk/a ... etrim.html