Paterson/Mooney Marriage

[shellywelly2011]

Hiya,
I have been searching in vain for a marriage between my husband's grandparents. She was Doris Mooney and he was Douglas John Paterson. They are the names on my father in laws birth cert. Unfortunately he died some years ago and my mother in law doesnt know too much about the family as Doris died just before she met her husband to be. I have searched and searched for these two and am stumped. Doris was born, I think 1901 and died in May 1963. DJ Paterson was born in Aberdeen in 1900 and died in Sennybridge in Wales in 1944. He apparently had a military funeral but cant find owt about that either! They were in Liverpool in 1931 as Douglas G Paterson my father in Law was born there and his 2 sisters Joan and Evelyn were born in Birkenhead in 1927 and 1935. DJ Paterson was a Policeman in Liverpool, I have spoken to the archive lady at Canning Place, police hq and he resigned in December 1926. Why? He also worked in the Adelphi Hotel and we are going through the archives at the museum next week. Any help would be very gratefully received!

[MaryA]

You are aware that Joan's mother wasn't Doris Mooney?

died in Sennybridge in Wales in 1944. He apparently had a military funeral but cant find owt about that either!

Was he in any of the military services? If he had died in service he should be commemorated on the CWGC, but I can't find him on there.

DJ Paterson was a Policeman in Liverpool, I have spoken to the archive lady at Canning Place, police hq and he resigned in December 1926. Why?

You need to research the Minutes of the Watch Committee, there may be mention of him/his reasons. These will be held at the Liverpool Record Office, but you should check first to see if they, at that date, would be on microfilm or document form, if the former you would be able to view the film at the World Museum, but if in document form you would need to visit the satellite office at Sandhills.

[MaryA]

Hmmm is there something strange or can anybody else solve the problem of Joan's birth.

If your research is accurate I am assuming that the entry for Q3 1927 Birkenhead 8a 762 is the correct one, mother's maiden name Doran.

The marriage for parents that appear to match this are
David Paterson to Caroline Doran Q3 1926 Birkenhead 8a 1481
CheshireBMD has this as a Civil Marriage in Birkenhead - surname spelled Patterson, which could be a mistake.

Coincidentally there is a War Death for David Paterson 11/07/1944 buried in RYES WAR CEMETERY, BAZENVILLE, France. Obviously not connected since the entry for your Douglas is Q1 1944 Brecknock Breconshire

[MaryA]

Have you tried Scotland's People for the marriage, I can only wonder if Douglas and Doris married in Scotland.

Do you have Doris's death certificate? Did the person who registered the death enter her birthplace?

[Hilary]

The Watch committee minutes are books as far as I remmeber so will probably be at Sandhills.

I would make a search of the Liverpool directories either at the World Museum in Liverpool on film or at Crosby library actual directories which should give you addresses and also an occupation ie when he became a policeman and when he left (approx).

[shellywelly2011]

Wow!
That gives me food for thought! Thank you.
Yes Joan has been the tricky one. I found one sister, Evelyn Jean who moved to Wales. The 2 sisters and brother were evacuated there during the war and thats when DJ Paterson died. Doris Mooney apparently moved back to Liverpool and Joan looked after her there. I think I found a death cert for Joan.
The archive lady at Canning place said the only record they had was of DJ Paterson's resignation. No mention of another place to search. I will check that out thank you. I will apply for the death cert for Doris. I have looked on Scotlands People for the marriage but no joy.

[shellywelly2011]

Have you tried Scotland's People for the marriage, I can only wonder if Douglas and Doris married in Scotland.

Yep, tried that one! No luck

Do you have Doris's death certificate? Did the person who registered the death enter her birthplace?

I have my gt grandads death cert and it doesnt say on that where he was born. Do some of them have that info?

[simone]

Hi

I am thinking that Joan has been taken in by Douglas and Doris after the death of her own parents

We know from Mary's findings that Joan born Birkenhead 1927, mmn Doran, and David Patterson married Caroline Doran in 1926 , sep q, Birkenhead.

Looked for Caroline and found a likely Carrie Doran b c1903 on 1911 census
RG14; Piece: 21971
3 Moon Street, Birkenhead

Samual Doran 39b Birkenhead, dock labourer
Louisa Doran 39
William Quick 14 son
Ada Louisa Quick 12 daughter
Emily V Quick 10 daughter
Carrie Doran 8 daughter
Catherine Rose Doran 6 daughter
Annie Jno Doran 4 daughter


we then have the following possible deaths

Mar q 1931 Liverpool
David Patterson age 31
8b 207

Carrie Patterson age 28
Mar q 1931
8a 755
Birkenhead

both in same quarter but reg in different districts

(also another David Patterson death in Mar q 1927 West Derby age 47. May be a little too old, but not impossible. Means he would have died whilst Carrie/ Caroline pregnant )

wonder if David could be a cousin/brother of Douglas?

Simone x

[MaryA]

Good one Simone, you've managed to take things a step further.

[Tina]

Simmo

Tina

[shellywelly2011]

Hi

I am thinking that Joan has been taken in by Douglas and Doris after the death of her own parents

We know from Mary's findings that Joan born Birkenhead 1927, mmn Doran, and David Patterson married Caroline Doran in 1926 , sep q, Birkenhead.

Looked for Caroline and found a likely Carrie Doran b c1903 on 1911 census
RG14; Piece: 21971
3 Moon Street, Birkenhead

Samual Doran 39b Birkenhead, dock labourer
Louisa Doran 39
William Quick 14 son
Ada Louisa Quick 12 daughter
Emily V Quick 10 daughter
Carrie Doran 8 daughter
Catherine Rose Doran 6 daughter
Annie Jno Doran 4 daughter


we then have the following possible deaths

Mar q 1931 Liverpool
David Patterson age 31
8b 207

Carrie Patterson age 28
Mar q 1931
8a 755
Birkenhead

both in same quarter but reg in different districts

(also another David Patterson death in Mar q 1927 West Derby age 47. May be a little too old, but not impossible. Means he would have died whilst Carrie/ Caroline pregnant )

wonder if David could be a cousin/brother of Douglas?

Simone x

Whew! Thanks for that! I have learnt on my way doing this family tree that family lore means nothing lol.
All I knew was that my father in law had 2 sisters, 1 4 years older and 1 younger. Joan looked after her mum through ill health after the war back in Liverpool after evacuation to Wales. He hadnt spoken to either of them since the 60's when Joan reneged on a debt and left my parents in law to pay £500 for her. A lot of money then, mind you a lot of money now. I struggled to find Joan in the records. I was going to order Doris's death cert but if it doesnt have her place of birth there doesnt seem much point.
Aargh, this is sooo frustrating

[simone]

Hi

What is the actual wording on the birth cert for your father in law regarding his mum?

Could Doris be a Dorothy in records or could she have been married before

had a look around a couple of possible marriages for Doris Mooney to Bertram Edwards and another to Percy Hand. Was thinking maybe that 1st hubby died but can't see anything

it's more difficult not knowing where she was from isn't it

Who were the witnesses at you f-in-laws marriage... could they be realted to Doris in some way


having said all that, still can't see a marriage for a Douglas that fits anyway
Simone

[daggers]

Is the name Paterson or Patterson?
Like Mary, I have not found a matching death recorded by the War Graves Commission, with either spelling, or any near miss.
A possible line of research would be a local newspaper for a report or notice of the funeral. I spent some months in Sennybridge (very bleak!) during National Service, but cannot remember if there was a local paper. Brecon is the nearest town, but there were links elsewhere, perhaps Merthyr or even Llandovery.

D

[dickiesam]

Hi,
I think you need to get Joan's birth cert to find out who her mother was and what the father's occupation was at that time.

Births Sep 1927: Patterson, Joan - Doran - Birkenhead - 8a - 762

Births Jun 1931: Paterson, Douglas G - Mooney - Liverpool - 8b - 220

Births Jun 1935: Paterson, Evelyn J - Mooney - Birkenhead - 8a - 823.

And do you have Douglas' death certificate, What was the cause of death?
Death: PATERSON, Douglas J
Registration District: Brecknock, Brecknockshire, Wales.
Year of Registration: 1944; Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death: 44
Volume No: 11B; Page No: 83

DS